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Posts posted by paja
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Thank you very much, Igor! Amazing research!
I've found a few more Brits awarded with the Montenegrin Silver Bravery Medal.0 -
Once again, thank you so much for images from Delande's catalog!
I hope you won't mind me asking you again, but are there other Montenegrin decorations in that catalog?0 -
It's Cyrillic signature ЂЈ 1912. ЂЈ or ĐJ are the author's initials, Ђорђе Јовановић (Đorđe Jovanović).
Anyway, very nice medal!0 -
Very interesting TV show about two former Nebojša crew members made in 2003 LINK.
When the command gave the order to surrender the submarine to Italians 19 out of 54 crew members disobeyed it and went first to Crete and then to Alexandria to join the allies. They took a lot of other people with them, navy and officers of other branches. Corvette lieutenant Ivan Mišković remained active during the war outside Yugoslavia. When he returned home in 1946 he had troubles with the new communist authorities, even spent some time in the solitary confinement. On the other hand Jovan Trbojević was first trained by the British in Palestine and then parachuted into mountains of Montenegro in 1942 where he joined Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland. After the war he remained outside Yugoslavia.
Nebojša was brought back to Yugoslavia in 1945 where the Yugoslav Navy used it for training under a a new name, Tara, until 1954-5 when it was decommissioned and later cut up for scrap.
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Flag from the royal submarine Nebojša and submarine badge, looks like M1937
Sokol society flagSource: http://www.muzej.mod.gov.rs/en/museum-activity/exhibitions/the-april-war-1941#.WO4kl_mGO70
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Apologies for the wrong attribution, thanks for the correction.
I remember reading an article about Mozaffar ad-Din Shah Qajar's visit to Serbia in 1900. Perhaps Esmail Momtaz od-Dowleh was decorated with Takovo on that occasion.0 -
Greetings Mark and welcome to GMIC.
Amazing photography of your ancestor, thank you for sharing it with us. I've been able to identify two decorations, Serbian Order of the Cross of Takovo 1st class and Bulgarian Order of the Civil Merit 2nd class (so-called princely type).
I'm not sure about the rest, images are little bit blurry.
As for the decorations on the back side of the photo, second one from the left looks like Montenegrin Order of Danilo and third one is Ottoman Order of the Medjidie.
Regards0 -
Looks like Fleischhacker's order which puts it in the 1891-1903 period. Unfortunately I can't help you with the ribbon.
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Real or fantasy? LINK
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Greetings Andy and welcome to the forum.
Very interesting story, thank you for sharing it with us. Are you looking for information regarding the owner of the badge or the badge itself? Based on the number I'd say it's probably made by Kovnica Sorlini (Mint Sorlini from Varaždin), if so it should have KS hallmark on the back side.
As for the surname Jovtić (Serbian spelling) it doesn't sound familiar, I don't think I ever heard of it. I wouldn't say it's impossible but Jevtić (Jevtich) or Jović (Jovich) sound more likely.
Regards0 -
Apologies for not replying sooner.
You are welcome, I enjoy discussions like this.
Perhaps they used a different technique later. I've never seen Order of the People's Army with the silvering gone unlike early Labor Order. Also most of them are still very "shinny" while those Labor Orders have patina...0 -
Thank you for showing us those pogoni!
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16 minutes ago, Lightfoot said:
The blue and red cap has a Peter I monogram on the cockade not a Peter II monogram because it's a pre-WWI model.
Of course, but I wasn't talking about the cap and cockade, I wrote: "Braided shoulder boards with Petar II monogram."
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Type 1 orders are smaller in size so that's the reason why they are a bit lighter. Type 2 silver one is just 2g heavier than the one made out of tombak. And like I said weights vary even within same type, Georg's Type 1 is 65,6g and Type 2 72,1g.
Some Yugoslav orders are definitely made out of silver plated tombak, I have one early Order of Labor 3rd class with most of the silvering gone and you can clearly see that the base is made out of brownish metal. I think lacquer is applied on the last type of that order so that might be the case with the Order of the People's Army as well, I'll check tomorrow if I can see traces of it and let you know.
I've read an article by Nenad Bjeloš about these orders and according to the author Type 1 orders were produced until 1961. Tombak was introduced in the '80s and only 2nd and 3rd class were made out of it, so all 1st classes are silver. Based on that I think it is safe to say all Type 1 orders are made out of silver.
Stojan Rudež who was the Chief of the Chancellery of Orders wrote in his book that this order was instituted on January 1st 1952. but the final solution for it's design was chosen in April 1953. He also states that 2nd and 3rd class were made out of tombak from 1980 onward.
So we have this timeline:
Type 1 (silver) 1953-1961
Type 2.1 (silver) 1961-1980
Type 2.2 (tombak) 1980-19921953-1980 silver
1980-1992 tombak0 -
On 6/16/2008 at 19:03, wlodzimierz said:
Images of new type of Order of Yugoslavian People's Army 1st cl.
This order is made from tombac in 1981 - 1985, it has no hallmarks.
I've been reading older posts and this one caught my attention. I'm convinced that that order is made out of silver even though wlodzimierz lists it as a new tombak type from 1981-1985.
It's Type 1 and all of Type 1 orders were made out of silver regardless of class. Apart from that all of 1st class orders were made out of silver. Tombak was used for the production of 2nd and 3rd class orders...
So to conclude, that's early, Type 1 order, made out of silver without hallmarks on the back.0 -
Don't mention it, Eric!
Looks more like Type 2 to me. Considering that those orders are far from rare I'd suggest getting one that is silver without a doubt, although I must say that one looks nice regardless of the material they used. Generally speaking most of them cost around the same, whether they are Type 1 or Type 2, silver or not.It's not a problem to give you weights, but unfortunately that won't get you anywhere. Weights vary even within the same type... For example Georg14 and I have compared weights of orders from our collections and his Type 1 and Type 2 were both around 5 grams heavier than mine.
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I can't give you a definitive answer but that's certainly a possibility. For example I've seen silver 1st class orders (Type 1) without hallmarks. Apart from that there are other silver orders made by the same factory without hallmarks, for example I have one Order of Military Merits like that, same thing with the Order of Merits for the People...
If it's Type 1 then it's definitely silver, I believe tombak (or whatever cheaper metal they used) variants of that type don't exist.0 -
It looks just like the box we can see on 287. page of Car/Muhić book (Croatian version) - Bertrand's first class order awarded to Anton Korošec in 1919.
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Perhaps one day that would be possible, provided that the archive survived...
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Decorations of Price Mihailo Obrenović
in Southern European & Balkan States
Posted · Edited by paja
It's hard to determine which miniatures is he wearing based on this photo, I presume Russian St. Anna & White Eagle and Greek Order of Redeemer...
He's wearing both miniatures of the stars and miniatures of the badges.