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Posts posted by paja
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Don't mention it, thank you for sharing such a beautiful medal bar with us!
Now that you have mentioned it, we should check what do regulations say about having both IV and V Takovo on a medal bar.
If I remember well Red Cross Order was supposed to be worn on the last place.
I am aware of the fact that foreign decorations were to be worn after domestic ones but when we look at the photos of officers from that era we can see some of them didn't comply with that regulation. Also Montenegrin Commemorative Medal from 1862 "For Heroism" according to several authors had different ribbon...
Petar I Coronation Medal was not to to be put immediately after the orders, Bravery medals were also in front of it.
1893 Medal was to be awarded to the King, members of the Government and National Assembly. The only officer among them was Dragutin Franasović, Minister of War. I found a photo of him from 1896 and that's definitely not his medal bar. Constitution of 1888 doesn't give active nor passive right to vote to members of the military, so they couldn't have been members of the National Assembly. Perhaps the King awarded some of these medals to other individuals but all of the sources I have say the same thing, King, Government, National Assembly.
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I have no idea, "trial piece" doesn't sound very likely to me, what trial 70 years after institution? Maybe if there was an idea of instituting golden class of this medal during WW1, but I haven't heard of it before. So, a factory mistake?
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Greetings,
Very impressive medal bar, I think I've seen it before online.
You probably nailed most of the decorations, here's my opinion:
1) White Eagle V not IV
2) Most likely Takovo IV or V with swords, but I wouldn't completely exclude Legion of Honor or some other foreign decoration
3) Perhaps Takovo IV, if so then:
4) Takovo V and
5) Golden Bravery Medal from 1877
6) Montenegrin Silver Bravery Medal
7) Silver Bravery Medal (1876, 1877-78 or 1885-86?)
8) Petar I Coronation Medal?
The rest is clear...0 -
I just noticed an interesting auction, Golden Medal for Zeal, 1895 type, made by "V. Mayer's Söhne" with box and document!
I don't remember seeing documents for these medals before...
LINK
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Don't mention it, glad to help.
Best regards0 -
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"Ordes and Medals of the Communist Albania" (Ордена и медали коммунистической Албании) contains a mistake regarding silver hallmarks.
Description given bellow is wrong.
It should be like this:
Rooster in square = 950/1000
Rooster in pentagon = 900/1000
Rooster in hexagon = 800/1000Cover of the book LINK
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Golden Sliver Bravery Medal? Any ideas about this one? LINK
Description:
Medal in bronze and fire gilded, 36.6mm, unmarked, but of typical WW1 period French manufacture (maker is unknown), in near mint condition, rare.
Footnote: this medal is issued officially in silver only, this being possibly a trial piece.0 -
If I'm not mistaken 1st class is made out of .950 silver (silver fineness hallmark - rooster in square).
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Ribbon bars, earlier vs. newer, obvious difference in size.
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Thank you very much, Chris!
I wasn't sure about the silhouette but the roundel made me think of Libya even though other countries used or still use those colors today (Egypt and Yemen for example). Many Libyans were enrolled in Yugoslav Military Academies, especially Air Force Academy, besides that a certain number of Yugoslav flight instructors were sent to Libya. It's interesting to mention that Libya purchased over 100 Yugoslav Soko G-2 Galeb jets.0 -
Thanks, these are very nice especially compared to some other examples I've seen before, congrats!
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Very nice, thanks for sharing!
Are hallmarks readable?0 -
I think I saw that type of fakes before. They look relatively decent on photos, might fool newcomers, but a fellow collector told me it's a different story when you hold them in your hands. I can't say for sure but based on these photos the badge looks "flat", somewhat porous yellowish back side also speaks for itself. Also five-pointed red star is separately made and then applied to the badge on original insignia...
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Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
I really like royal era roundel with white Kosovo Cross.0 -
I class, IKOM Zagreb, converted by ZIN Belgrade
Remade 1.2.2, number, hallmarks (rooster & IKOM) and Roman numeral III on the back side. Belgrade factory converted it into I class and replaced the screw with vertical needle with inscription "ZIN KOVNICA".0 -
Some time ago I bought a nice set of pins of various Yugoslav military schools and academies, among them was this one. If I remember well the seller wrote it's a badge of a foreign students (not sure from which country) enrolled in the Yugoslav Air Force Academy. Unfortunately I can't read the inscription so I'd be grateful if someone could help me with translation. Airplane silhouette and opened book below it do suggest it might be related to some Air Force educational institution.
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First raw:
Type 1.1.1, ZIN Belgrade (with 3 rivets)
Type 1.1.1, ZIN Belgrade
Type 1.1.2, ZNB BelgradeSecond raw:
Type 1.2.1, IKOM Zagreb
Type 1.2.2, IKOM Zagreb
Type 1.2.3, IKOM Zagreb, remade by ZIN/ZNBThird raw:
Type 1.2.4, IKOM Zagreb, remade by IKOM
Type 1.3 ZNB Belgrade
Type 2.1.1 IKOM Zagreb, remade by ZINFourth raw:
Type 2.1.2 IKOM Zagreb, remade by IKOM
Type 2.2 ZIN Belgrade
Type 2.3 IKOM Zagreb0 -
Let's say typical Bertrand pieces look just like that one on emedals and typical Scheid pieces look like the other one from my previous posts.
I've seen that Scheid's order in Car/Muhić book and to honest that's a bit of a puzzle to me. It looks just like Bertrand made order and even the authors state so. If I'm not mistaken there's a hallmark on its suspension ring, perhaps that's how they determined the producer. Anyway that particular example is very unusual for Scheid.
One more thing, generally speaking Scheid's pieces are hallmarked while Bertrand's aren't.0 -
Type 2.3 IKOM Zagreb
Unnumbered, double horizontal needle.0 -
Type 2.2 ZIN Belgrade
Unnumbered, vertical needle with inscription "ZIN KOVNICA".0 -
Type 2.1.2 IKOM Zagreb, remade by IKOM
Remade 1.2.2, number, hallmarks (rooster & IKOM) and Roman numeral on the back side. Zagreb factory replaced the screw with double horizontal needle, removed the gilt from the star and gilded the combatant.
Type 2 awarded in 1974 but the box and the document bear pre-1973 name.0
Interesting serbian bar from the period of Obrenovic dinasty
in Southern European & Balkan States
Posted · Edited by paja
Amazing set of documents, especially second one signed by Blaznavac!
I understand what you mean, about medals being aligned, but we can see that there's the same issue with Montenegrin medal. Silver Bravery Medal is always problematic because of its small dimensions, but there's also that type with suspension ring.
I might be wrong but I still think Medal for Heroism isn't the medal on 7th place therefore it might not be the case of over 40 years of service. I don't know what were regulations like back then, but for example one of my ancestors was retired as colonel in 1899 at the age of 61 after 32 years of service in the Serbian army plus 7 more before that in Austria (he was born in what is now Northern Serbia). Anyway there are examples of officers serving over 40 years, how often did that happen in practice I can't say.
There's a medal bar with those two Montenegrin medals in Car/Muhić book. I think that's the only Serbian bar with Medal for Heroism I've seen so far. The medal in question is suspended from the same type of ribbon, red, blue and white one, but as I said before all of the sources that are available to me say it had a different ribbon...