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Posts posted by paja
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Realized price:
EUR 2,200
USD 2,450
+ buyer's premium
Considering the price maybe it's really authentic...0 -
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Last year I finally visited Museum of Military History in Vienna, one more medal is exhibited there.
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German memorial cemetery at New Bežanija cemetery.
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That's small Bežanija village cemetery, it's much older than the new one, I don't know how much exactly but some of the tombstones I saw are from XIX century. During the war artillery was located at Bežanija shelling Serbian troops across the river in Belgrade. I think there are two possibilities here, either there was military graveyard from the beginning on that small village cemetery, either that's the place where it was moved from Franztal graveyard. Considering the size of the cemetery I doubt there could have been larger military cemetery there, especially not with individual tombstones.
Yesterday I visited German memorial cemetery on New graveyard, I'll post some photos later. There are over 130 tombstones, many of them look the same, they are small and modest, shaped as cross. Seems to me they could be soldiers' tombstones from military cemetery. Unfortunately most of the names are completely unreadable. I'll post photos of those that can be read, maybe something can be dug up in the archives about them.0 -
Iron Cross makes me think this could be the final resting place of German soldiers. Is it unusual to see that symbol on Austro-Hungarian monuments? I did my best to discover more about these places but information are very hard to find. I'm wondering could this be that place on Bežanija where they moved some of the remains and possibly tombstones in 1951... Notice the damage, bullet holes perhaps?
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I continued the search and visited Staro bežanijsko groblje (Old Bežanija cemetery). After going through the main entrance I turned left and some 50 m further noticed a monument with inscription in German "DEN HELDEN DES WELTKRIEGES 1914-1918" (Heroes of World War 1914-18) with Iron Cross above it. It's located right between tombstones and its position is very unusual.
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Some time ago another forum member asked me what do I think about this badge, I have no doubt it's not original regardless of what the seller wrote.
Link to auction: Kingdom of Yugoslavia Submarine Bagde Original SILVER
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Thanks! As always documents are harder to find than medals, I also kept my eyes opened for one of these.
Unfortunately the tube is made from different kind of material than the box also the signature is printed, I was hoping each document was signed personally.0 -
This subject is very interesting to me because all of these places are not more than 5-10 minutes away from my home.
I continued online search and stumbled upon website of the Franztaler association.
They erected a monument in 2011 at "Novo bežanijsko groblje" (New Bežanija cemetery) and some of the remaining tombstones were put there. The article is in German, google translate left some things unclear so could someone who speaks the language tell us is the crypt also there? I understood that some of the remains were transferred in 1950/51 to Bežanija, but they don't say where exactly, I presume Old Bežanija cemetery. http://www.franztal.at/wir/gedenkst%C3%A4tte-neu-belgrad/
I'll try to visit some of these cemeteries in the following days, as soon as I do that I'll post more information and photos.IN MEMORIAM
To Franztal-Zemun inhabitants
who passed away around the world.
To German inhabitants
of Franztal-Zemun
who lost their homeland.0 -
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I forgot to post the link to the auction, here it is: http://www.ebay.de/itm/KuK-Kappenabzeichen-russisches-Abzeichen-Medaille-Kosovo-1389-1912-Orden-badge-/231918507489?nma=true&si=AH1yQ2Ln0dJ5chKglnweqxthuAs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Item location: Österreich
Achieved price: EUR 1.1220 -
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Markgraf, thank you! Even though I still have questions without answer your reply really helped me find a missing piece of the puzzle. My first guess was that soldiers were buried on Gardoš cemetery (XVIII century) which has orthodox, catholic and jewish part. I did a little research trying to locate Franzstal cemetery, it turns out there was a whole part of Zemun called that way. Germans started arriving in the early XIX century and their colony was called Franzenstal/Franzstal/Franztal. Their church, Hl. Wendel Kirche, was built in 1893 with the cemetery not very far from there, to be more precise on the exact same place where I noticed that monument! According to several online sources after the Second World War ended new communist authorities demolished the church in order to expand the school which was next to it. Where once stood cemetery they built a hospital! I'm still trying to discover what have they done with the earthly remains, I can only presume they were put in some kind of collective tomb. Some of the tombstones were used to make stairway in the part of Zemun called Kalvarija. I think most of them were eventually replaced but you can still see inscriptions on some of them.
If everything I wrote is true and I have no reason to think otherwise, I wonder why would they remove everything except for that monument, especially because it's a soldiers' monument.0 -
Just two more photos before I go to sleep. Name of the author is written in the lower right corner, WEIGNER. Search for that name led me nowhere. I don't know if these soldiers were buried or perhaps died at that place close to Zemun which back then was part of Austria-Hungary. Nowadays that area is covered in woods but I don't know was that the case 100 years ago. There is central Hungarian military cemetery located at "Novo groblje" (New Cemetery). Some time ago I read an article that during '30s remains of Hungarian soldiers that were scattered across Belgrade were carried over there. I'll try to find it tomorrow and reveal more information.
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I apologize if I miswrote some names, I'm not very familiar with Hungarian, if so please correct me.
HERMANN BOTH
IVAN UNGERBILLER
MIHALY BOGDAS
IMRE MENES
SIMON GABOR
JANOS SZAPSZKY
MICHAEL VALKOVSZKY
JOSEF OLAH
LAJOS ILYES
PETER SCHNEIDERJANOI ANTAI KIS
BALAZS GOLIAN
ISTVAN SZEPES
LAJOS OLAH
JANOS BALOG
ENDRES KOKOTI
JOZSEF KEREKGYARTO
ISTVAN B NAGY
LUDWIG HETESHEIMER
FRANZ KNECHTSBERGER
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Today for the first time I noticed a monument located in the backyard of Medical Center "Bežanijska kosa". I tried to dig up more about it but haven't had much luck. Apart from one more photo and information that it was built by Serbian authorities after the war nothing else. Inscription is in Serbian and means "Fallen Warriors" (Poginuli ratnici), bellow the list "Unknown" (Nepoznatih). Apart from some cracks its overall state is not so bad and someone relatively recently painted the names which are still readable.
Does anyone "from the other side" know something more about it?
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Here's one more example, recently sold over ebay.
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Fake Submarine Badge M1937
in Southern European & Balkan States
Posted
One more 274 from ebay, sold 2 days ago as a copy.