paja

They were probably numbered continuously during production, I meant the numbers were awarded randomly

Sorry, I misunderstood I think that's the case here, who knows on how many sides were the orders distributed at the same time, probably not going directly to recipient from one center.

What are the orders made of? Could they have been melted down after the conversion to new type? That is always what I thought of when thinking about these type 1s.

They were made out of gilded silver. If that is the case why then making an exception for example for Partisan star?

I doubt that the numbering was random, hopefully no one was silly enough to do something like that. How would they prevent making of orders with same numbers?

Here's a link to excellent photo of the same order you presented. It's from Slovenian online catalog of Yugoslav decorations.

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Wait what am I saying, there's one in the collection of the Military Museum

According to information from their catalog it's number is 199! If that's true there goes our theory about 1K start...
Only photo I managed to find so far. That one is a unit award, not given to individual.

Although something like that is unfortunately possible I still believe that there are other preserved examples out there, if not in museums then in private collections.

It's not like those were returned to USSR after Tito - Stalin split (or were they?). So many Partisan stars and Bravery orders/medals were kept and even worn the whole time, why would things be different with those two...

Paul it would be my pleasure.

TacHel you're welcome. I been having this idea of visiting all of military graveyards in Belgrade, making couple of photos, and them posting them with detailed information in one big topic in the Places to visit section.

Unfortunately that takes much time and the winter is near so probably nothing until the spring.

Unfortunately that's the only decent photo of Soviet type I saw so far... Same goes for the Soviet made Order of Brotherhood and Unity. Can anyone please share photos of other examples?

Now I understand what you meant by 10XX, I didn't realize that you we're talking about 1st type. So the Soviets started numbering from 1K or...?

Brotherhood and Unity I mentioned has even larger number - 21XX, so 2K onward?

Here's photo of one example which has been presented as fake on couple of forums.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-54067900-1416678227.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-13492100-1416678250.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-80069700-1416678262.jpg

I think that they weren't given out in order of numbering like the rest of Yugoslav decorations. For some reason until recently I taught Yugoslav decorations were given in that order but once I started collecting photos of awarding documents I saw how much was I wrong the whole time.

About the numbers, I've seen some below 100, mostly 8X and 9X, don't remember anything lower... And the highest I noticed so far is currently on ebay 580...

You are right about that story, it was discussed on GMIC in this topic: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/25853-order-of-national-liberation/?p=310859

"Made after disintegration of Yugoslavia with use of original details in commercial objectives"

But piece that was showed in that topic is obviously different... And those others I mentioned (from ebay) are looking like a real deal, I compared them with photos of other decorations which should be original and I really can't find anything suspicious... It could be that I am missing something but to me personally it's more likely that hoard of unawarded ones somehow found their way on the market.

And those that appeared are "regular" variants, either with screw nut without name of the producer either with IKOM nuts. No "conversion" types. Numbers are not always very high, for example three of them on ebay right now are under 200, couple of weeks ago one with number 13X got sold. I am collecting images of them but so far there were no different orders with the same number (I've been doing the same thing with those strange Partisan Stars but also nothing so far...).

Peko Dapčević's uniform and Order of the People's Hero together with Partizanska spomenica (what would be the best English translation of the name of that decoration? Partisan Commemorative Badge? Medal?)
Military Museum, photo found on wikipedia.

Dragomir,

Thank you very much for quick response! I suspected it could be that order as it is listed on wiki page about Koča Popović, unfortunately I wasn't able to find a single photo of it for comparison.

Koča Popović's (Коча Поповић) Order of People's Hero & Order of Hero of Socialist Labor.

Between them membership card of the Association of Yugoslav Volunteers in the Spanish Republican Army 1936-1939.

Does anyone recognize third decoration on the photo?

It really pains me to see someone practically destroyed 1st class order to make this "rare variant".

Luckily no one was foolish enough to pay 9000€ + premium (at least I hope so) for it. I also like their estimate: €9000 – €18000!
One big thanks to utopis for starting this topic, to be honest I never saw something like that before.

Rogi it would be great if you could find that photo of 5th class and post it

I forgot to mention one more form of faking. Although Yugoslav Flag can be considered as one of the top decorations they are not that hard to find (3rd type) not even the first class, but for some reason 4th class flags are pretty rare. So what happened, some "sellers" took 5th classes and started painting their rays! Remember how 3rd class full-size Orders of national merit became 1st class, same thing here.

To me a fake is a copy sold intentionally as an original item, and none of my sellers ever maintained they were original.

To me that is also misleading, if someone is selling copy that should be clearly pointed out.

I do not consider myself an expert for miniatures nor a big collector but I followed couple of discussions about this topic on some "regional" forums and everyone here considers them as fakes or replicas (to me basically the same thing).

These miniatures were made in large quantities so even after the breakup of Socialist Yugoslavia they found their way on the market. According to some certain number of them was made later, is that really true or not I can't say but in my opinion there were so many of them that there was no need for Yugoslav citizens to go to some private manufacturer to make replica. I've also read that Chancellery of orders in some cases issued decorations after the breakup so I suppose that was also possible with miniatures. Besides price of privately made piece would probably be higher than the one ordered through official channels. Also it would be more complicated to order it privately. And for the end there's the legal issue, according to the law production and sale of badges and items with same form or appearance as decorations of SFRY was offense. In my opinion this article of the law also covers private production of miniatures.

It is very indicative that all of these low quality fakes/replicas are of top decorations, I don't remember seeing pieces like that for "lower" decorations...

Well when you decide to make that trip I will be more than happy to be your "local guide", of course if you need one. Luckily graveyards are not the only places worth visiting.

Greetings Lukasz and thanks for expressing your opinion.

As most of us interested in Yugoslav decorations know there were three types of miniatures: type 1 two-side on vertical ribbon, type 2 with "0" suspension ring on horizontal ribbon and type 3 with "8" suspension ring also on horizontal ribbon. I believe that all three were made by official producers. I have never heard of or found any information about privately made miniatures, do you perhaps know more about this, which manufacturers made them, photos of examples...?

If faking implies an intentional action of providing or selling a copy as an original, then it is the correct term for the most of the examples I used. But then what's the difference between fake and copy? Just that intention?

You're welcome Paul.

Across the street is the Cemetery of the Liberators of Belgrade 1944 with remains of 1.386 Yugoslav fighters and 711 fighters of the Soviet Red Army.

Apart from Russian there are British, French and Italian but also Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian WW1 military graveyards at Novo groblje complex.

German WW1 military graveyard is on the other part of city called Banovo Brdo (if someone's interested I can give more precise information about it).

Interesting thing about that location is that Mackensen ordered that all of the fallen defenders of Belgrade are to be buried next to the Germans. There's even a monument with inscription "Serbian Heroes Rest Here" in German and Serbian (Hier ruhen serbische Helden - Овде почивају српски јунаци 1915). Because of that and respect he had for Serbian troops he is probably the most respected enemy in Serbia. Also Germans unlike troops of other occupiers didn't commit any atrocities, at least not that I know of.

Eagles + Monogram (worn by king's adjutants together with aiguillette).

Same mundir, epaulettes without eagles.

Generals' grand mundir belonged to vojvoda Bojović, notice the eagles on epaulettes (National Museum Čačak).

Air force - Captain 1st class (6th Fighter Regiment), lieutenant colonel.

+Air force emblem, pilot's badge, dagger, shapka, flight book...

Photos from exhibition "1941 - 70 years later" found on Royal family website.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-81949400-1416254358.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-91637400-1416254379.jpg

Senior infantry officers' mundir with epaulettes belonged to Miloš Cvetić (from the collection of the National Museum Kragujevac - same as the last two pairs).

I-197-Oficirski-paradni-mundir-s.jpg

(Oval) epaulettes were worn on ceremonial uniforms until 1927.