paja

Just for comparison.

Really beautiful decoration, thanks for sharing it with us

I am not an expert when it comes to Romanian decorations but I believe that that is the 2nd (1938) type of the cross. 1st type (1917) crosses were on orange ribbons without stripes on the edges. But there is one bigger difference, 1917 1st class cross was rotated to the left and 1938 to the right. Also the central red cross is much smaller on the 1st type.

I would say that yours was made in National mint (based on the inscription MONETARIA NATIONALA). Those are sometimes numbered.

Best regrads,

Radmilo

The size is just production difference, they are of same importance. Golden Oblilićs were to be awarded to officers and NCOs and silver ones to NCOs and soldiers.

I agree, medals on the bar are all from 1912-1918 wars, and White eagle is, considering that it is Huguenin, from post war era. But as far as I know that order was for officers only, and it couldn't have been awarded to soldier or NCO. On the other hand many soldiers were simple privates at the beginning of the war but earned NCO or even officer's rank after.

My humble opinion is that you should keep it authentic and not replace the ribbon. If it was up to me I would just put the small Obilić on the first place and WW1 commemorative medal on the last even though ribbon is not appropriate.

By the way, that Ilinden commemorative medal is great as well. Those are quite rare.

Great collection! Thanks for sharing it with us. The White Eagle looks like Huguenin, I can also see that you have all of Serbian war medals (1876-77-78, 1885-86, 1912, 1913, 1914-18), my congrats!

According to the regulations 1913 cross should be on the last place, and that is also logical, that the 1913 war medal is next to the 1912 war medal.

About the Oblilić medal, ribbon is not appropriate and according to the order of precedence it should be in front of all commemorative and other medals, not on the last place.

If the person was awarded the same medal more than once he was to put only one on the bar and oak branches on the ribbon for every next one. Officers and NCOs were often breaking this rule by putting all of their medals on the bar, but wearing all of Obilićs and oak branch at the same time is strange.

Also 1912 silver bravery medal is on a strange place, should be next to Oblilićs.

When it comes to Serbian medal bars there are lot on inconsistencies, regulations were often broken, but the ribbon is always the best indicator, it tells you which medal was where.

My opinion is that the medals should have been placed in this order in the first place:

-Domestic bravery medals

-Foreign bravery medals

-Albanian retreat medal

-Medal for military virtues

-Medal for zealous service

-1912 medal

-1913 medal

Were those White eagle and the Yugoslav Crown awarded to same person as other 12 medals on the bar? They should also be on the bar.

Anyway regardless of everything still a beautiful bar and a nice catch.

Kind regards,

Radmilo

Greetings and welcome,

That's a nice medal bar but in my opinion a little bit strange. I think that you should take the small Obilić and put it on the first place and the 1913 cross on the last. Ribbon on the 6th and the last place seems to be the same, red with black edges so that is a little bit confusing, is there some foreign decoration with the ribbon like that? Nothing falls to my mind... One more strange thing, why are there all of his Obilićs and the oak branch on the bar at the same time.

All in all very interesting medal bar with 4 Serbian and 2 foreign bravery awards. My humble opinion is that you shouldn't repair anything, it's shape is not so bad, only thing missing are hooks on the first and the last place and one decoration.

P.S. if the order of decorations on the bar is original, if nothing has been changed, it could easy be that the Order of the Star of Karageorge with swords for Soldiers and NCOs. was on the first place.

Kind regards,

Radmilo

Hello

Thanks ,

Yes , they are Bertrand , So they are definitely ST.SAVA ?

I believe so. Bertrand was making boxes of similar color but with swords in the lower left corner and marked V or IV for Karageorge star with swords for soldiers.

I believe that those boxes are for Serbian Order of Saint Sava made by Bertrand.

Kind regards,

Radmilo

Just for quick clarification, the one I have is type 1 (is that the 1st issue of the medal?) a 1895 or so year issue? and the second edition is 1908?

After Radmilo brought it up, could it be that they used the same die for the "Medal of Heroism" for the medal of Zeal? with small alterations in the wiriting on the reverse?

I believe that you are correct, yours is according to information Iver shared with us 1895 type.

Here's just for comparison Medal for Heroism and 1908 type Golden medal for zeal. Maybe not the same die, but the same solution.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2013/post-7937-0-23065800-1370437242.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2013/post-7937-0-99861800-1370437252.jpg

..the informations about types comes from the book Měřička Václav: Černohorská vyznamenání (Montenegrian decorations)... The type on the photo (from my collection) should be 2.edition from year 1908...

Thank you for that clarification. I do not have proper literature when it comes to decorations of Montenegro.

I saw one more book I believe to be excellent, "Crnogorska odlikovanja" by Milan Jovićević. Printed in 1982 so a bit harder to get.

I noticed that this medal is very similar to Medal for heroism (Медаља за јунаштво) from 1862. One of the differences, apart from inscription on the back side and that part above medal, is that the Medal for heroism had the inscription written with Russian alphabet and Medal for zeal with Serbian.

When I was talking about types I know, I wasn't putting them in chronological order. So your medal could be type 1, I'm not sure which type is older.

Thank you both it could be serbian or montenegro but

It also doesn't look like standard skrip for a "Serbian" style medal, I'll have to post the skip on the reverse, its very interesting plus I beleive the ruler on the front is a Montenegran leader?

Thank you all for the comments

For the Hallmark, do you beleive it might be later part of the 1890s?

You are welcome Rogi.

It's Montenegrin without a doubt. Yes, you are right on the front is Nikola I Petrović, Prince and later first and the last King of Montenegro. Inscription on the front side: "Nikola I Prince of Montenegro". As for the hallmark as far as I know they were using this type from 1867 until 1921. I am not an expert when it comes to Montenegrin awards and I am not able to help you determine period of it's production. But I know that there are at least two variants of this medal, one on a simple round ring and one on the ellipse. Looks like yours is the 2nd type. Once again my congrats, excellent piece!

Regards,

Radmilo

Hello Rogi,

it´s an serbian medal and the hallmark VM is Vincenz Mayer Wien, he

manufactured some serbian awards.

Regards

Andreas

Greetings Andreas,

Actually Rogi is right, it's Montenegrin medal, not Serbian, at that time Serbia and Montenegro were separate states.

Regards,

Radmilo

Association of recipients of the Star of Karageorge with swords miniature pin, great piece!

Wish my relatives were giving me presents like that

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Best regards,

Radmilo

Great birthday present

I think that that is the Silver Medal for Zeal (Medalja za revnost). It was introduced in 1895, and it had two grades, gold and silver.

Hallmarks are Austrian, I believe that you correctly identified the left one, the right one is for purity of silver, in this case 900/1000.

Anyway a beautiful medal in it's original, rare box, my congrats.

Regards,

Radmilo

I really can't tell, I believe that he did, but he would be the right person to ask. Sometimes these medal bars change a lot of owners in a short period of time, I've seen that couple of times.

Regards,

Radmilo

You are welcome.

How what happened? Could you please clarify that question?

Radmilo

Greetings Linas,

A beautiful medal bar, our friend Emanuel posted pictures of it here: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56056-serbia-kingdom-medal-bar-on-ebay/?p=517454

It can also be seen here among some pretty rare items (Posts #11, 13 and 14) http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/32324-serbia-rare-medal-for-bravery/

The bar was also on ebay for a long time...

Paul already identified all of the decorations correctly. I beleive that both, the White Eagle and St. Sava, were made by Huguenin.

Kind regards,

Radmilo

Greetings Markgraf,

This is not my area, but I believe that that is šajkača of Ground forces officer used in period between 1997 and 2000 (?). Cap emblem is for soldiers not officers.

Here's a picture of complete uniform from the Army of Republika Srpska memorial room.

Take a look at the head of the eagle and especially it's very unique eye, that also goes for the detail on the tip of the wing. I have never seen eagle with something similar.

Notice the hole in the tail and the detail on the edges, looks just like on Scheid models.

Cross in the central medallion is made separately.

And for the end back medallion, take a look at the shape underneath the red enamel, similar to Scheid but different.

Greetings gentlemen,

I was never able to correctly identify the producer of this Order of the White Eagle (4th class) so every comment is more than welcome. It has been in my family for generations and I have a copy of recipient's military record which of course has a complete list of all of his decorations. Based on that I believe that this particular order was awarded before WW1 (maybe even before the Balkan Wars). At first I thought that it was made by Bertrand but as far as I know they weren't producing White Eagle in that period, also their orders differ in many details. Then I thought that it might be Scheid, my example has some similarities with their orders but also couple of differences. All in all I have never seen example like this. Unfortunately it has no hallmarks and it can't be found in the book "Orders and decorations of Serbia and Yugoslavia 1859 - 1941" by Pavel Car and Tomislav Muhić.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-14721100-1369438339.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-79337200-1369438654.jpg

Miscellaneous

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-58926000-1369235641.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-91532800-1369235652.jpg

Captain, King's adjutant uniform (Yugoslav volunteers of the Allied Forces)

I believe that the ribbons are for:

1. Order of the White Eagle

2. Medal for Zealous Service

3. British Africa Star

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-79139200-1369235472.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-78781400-1369235484.jpg

Royal Guards, battle dress uniform, cavalry lieutenant colonel with Yugoslav Čačak helmet (Czechoslovakian M1932)

Order of the Yugoslav Crown 5th class

M1920 saber

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-53556200-1369234650.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-58416500-1369234679.jpg

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-53814700-1369234688.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-84169800-1369234698.jpg

M1937 Yugoslav Royal Air Force dagger

Officer's cap (major, lieutenant colonel, colonel)

Captain 1st class and lieutenant colonel's shoulder boards, pilot's badge and cap emblem

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-10455500-1369233350.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-7937-0-12887400-1369233363.jpg