J Temple-West

Hi D,

You could very well be right... 'Wernstein' are known for being a mid to late war producer of zinc flaks. Perhaps they bought in a certain amount of buntmetal pieces from ' Scholze' early on in the proceedings, marked them and sold them on.

Of course, it could have just as easily been post war marked to up the value on an unmarked piece, something that was done quite a lot.

It certainly is an enigma.

Very interesting, Eric...

Number 5, as I'm sure you'll know, is for the maker 'Hermann Wernstein Jena-Lobstedt'.. As to why we find this 'flak' marked with the 'Wernstein' # instead of the normal 'W', in one form or another, logo (found on all Wernstein badges) has me stumped...

The maker # for 'Adolf Scholze' is 95...perhaps the person who stamped this particular badge forgot to stamp the nine??

Sorry, not much help on this one.

A side by side comparison of 'Juncker' 1st/2nd patterns (top) and 'Deumer' 1st/2nd patterns (bottom).

Reverse.

Both eagles are on green wool backing.

Having a dig around in one of the storage boxes, I came up with these breast and cap eagles.

I can't remember where or when I got them..

Are the right? if so, are they General Officer?s insignia? if not, which branch of the services would they have come from?

Any information would be gratefully received.

Reverse.

Although unmarked, this early nickel silver (known as the "Ball hinge") flak badge has the reverse setup of the maker... Adolf Scholze, Grunwald.

My thanks to Kurt for passing it on to me.

The catch is the most telling characteristic. As far as I?m aware, only ?Deumer? produced a catch which has this ?hook?.

Rivets; typical ?Deumer?.

Wheel grinding to the wreath under the hinge, as found only on ?Deumer? badges.

Reverse.

Barrel Hinge; Typical type used by ?Juncker? on 1st pattern badges.

Pin; has the flattened surface to the top quarter, as found on most ?Deumer? badges.

Next up is this early, unmarked pilots badge thought, and accepted, to be by 'Deumer'.

Of all the early badges I have by this maker, this particular badge shows all the characteristics of 'Deumer' construction and also shows that 'Juncker' were involved with the company from pre-war, onwards.

So, to the obverse. Overall, not much evidence to support the theory, except certain similarities in the fletching to both wings on this badge and the 1st pattern by ?Juncker? and the styling of the chest feathers on this 1st pattern and Deumer?s 2nd pattern badges.

The wreath, although similar in style to ?Juncker?, is different, but has a definite ?Juncker? influence, IMO. It?s when we come to the reverse that all will become clear, I trust.

Comparison between the cut-out & non cut-out versions.

Note the double strike of the maker mark.

Not quite used to the placement of the of the new maker mark tool when changing over from the 'CEJ' mark?

Reverse..

A few new pieces have been coming in and seeing that the school holidays are over, bringing peace once again to the household, I have some time to get around to doing some photography.

So, first up.... a classic by 'C.E Juncker' in the form of their 1st pattern Pilot's badge. This one has the cut-out between the eagle's legs, giving it a more 3D effect than the version without the cut-out... comparison to follow.

A very nice bar you have there, Scott. I particularly like the 'Schinkel' EK2 which makes it that little bit extra-special.

A warm welcome to the club, btw..

Assmann 1st/Juncker 2nd patterns.

Assmann 2nd pattern..

Assmann 1st pattern.

Correct hinge/pin and recessed catch and apart from the wear, which gives an appearance of the characteristics being slightly different to the obverse... it looks good.

Jan Arne S has one of these.... hopefully he'll be able to give a more informed opinion.

In the meantime, here are some dimensions from a marked original.

32.3 g

57.5 mm height

44.8 mm width

Hi Kurt,

G.H Osang produced the text book wire stock pin type... single rivet, wide pin examples are widely accepted as original but, As far as I know, the jury is still out when it comes to these 3 rivet, wide pin types.

IMO, it?s one of those that you pays your money and takes your chances.

Personally, I would err on the side of caution?unless you like a gamble?

?80.00 wouldn't be far off the mark..

Originals have a space between the 'A' & 'F' and, as you indicate, different sized 'voids' in the letters you've mentioned.

Have a look at the back... If the void in the 'O' is diamond shaped, it's a repro.

I compliment you on a most excellent presentation, Bill.