Christian Zulus

Lost for the international market ...

Dear slava1stclass,

many thanks for posting that interesting article from the Post .

Concerning orders & medals:

Our Russian collectors are entitled to buy the awards and to re-import them to the Russian Federation, but they are not allowed to sell them outside of the Russian Federation anymore.

By presenting the bills to the RF-authorities, that he had legally purchased the orders at an auction or at a dealer in the west, the collector receives the right to be the legal owner of the items, to re-import them and he gets an official congratulation for his patriotic deed, but he is blocked to sell them (legally) again abroad.

So, all Soviet awards, which are going back to the RF are lost for the international market .

This aspect might also drive the prices to unbelievable heights ...

Best regards

Christian

I would like to contribute with my Red Banner "2", of the screwback type, number 1348. It corresponds to Durov - Strekalov's Type 2, Variant 2, Subtype 1 (or 2?), illustrated on page 140.

Dear Enzo,

congratulations to your beauty .

At the NYC-auction some weeks ago, such an order had been sold for USD 27.600,- (incl. buyer's premium) :

http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2213

Best regards

Christian

RBL s/n. 8660 awarded during the GPW

Gentlemen,

I just checked Anatoly Kutsenko's book again and he list the following dates of awarded RBLs:

s/n. 8031 - 28.06.1941

s/n. 9030 - 19.01.1942

So the s/n. 8660 should have been awarded in the second half of 1941 - just during the first months of the GPW .

Paul McDaniel mentiones also the maker's mark "b" - as at my item - for the RBL T2 in his "Red Bible".

A bit more than 20.000 RBL T2 screwbacks had been awarded - most of them during the GPW.

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Marc, my RBL T2 is almost ident to your RBL T2 s/n. 7706 http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=228673

RZHEV ?

Dear Marc,

maybe the series of the battles of Rzhev http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Rzhev during January 8, 1942?March 22, 1943 ?

But it was known as the "Rzhev meat grinder" ("Ржевская мясорубка") ....

Best regards

Christian

OK guys, let's try this once more

This time, we are looking for a place.

It is refered to as the "Soviet Verdun" in the former USSR. There took place one of the bloodiest battle of WW2; more than 300,000 Soviet troops were killed there, to which should be added the German deads (I don't have any figures about them, but I've been told it was awfully high too).

1. What is the Russian name of the place?

2. Where is it located? What front was it part of?

3. What was the maximum size (approximate) of the battlefield?

4. How long did the battle last (beginning/ending dates)?

5. What was the first unit engaged in the opening battle?

6. What is there today?

Let's have fun

Fakes of the 1990s

The Russians often say that there is no point in tryng to understand a faker's logic, as there is none.

Dear Marc,

at least, our fakers wouldn't be idiots by working 10 times longer for the same amount of money . The people in the Baltics are very much business oriented ....

I just checked Paul McDaniel in the "Red Bible", what he writes about faked RBLs T2. The "Red Bible" was published in 1997.

PMD writes on page 158, that the screwback RBLs had been always faked by using 2 RBL T4 of the early versions, which were put together, faked rivets, screwpost and a too large MONDVOR mintmark (+ faked patina) were added. PMD says, that such fakes are easily detactable by a side view, where you can see the 2 put together RBLs and by the too large MONDVOR mintmark.

Please have a look at the side view scans of my RBL and at the size and form of my MONDVOR mintmark - there is everything correct . Also the rivets are real and there is no faked patina at the rv.

It is exactly the version (also with matching s/n.!) shown at Andrew's http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showuser=1193 Mondvor website:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=239103

Best regards

Christian

HOLY SMOKES......I better get this locked up in the bank...

Bank vaults are cheaper, than insurance fees ...

Best regards

Christian

RB#2 battle award

ORB "2" number 3760 would be from the summer of 1943, so this is a very nice so-called "Victory Parade" updated modern war's end replacement for a screwback. No long service on this one!

Gentlemen,

might be also one of the very first suspended RB#2 and not a "Victory Parade" order ?

Anatoly Kutsenko lists in his book about Soviet Orders concerning RB#2:

s/n. 2707 - 22.02.1943

s/n. 3962 - 27.08.1943

s/n. 7037 - 22.06.1944

So it seems likely, that RB#2 s/n. 3760 was awarded in july or august 1943.

Best regards

Christian

BTW: That's my RB#2 belonging to a (incomplete) airforce officer's group - long service award of the 1950s : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24254

Which means normal dealers and collectors put a value of $1500 on it

Dear Darrell,

due to the fact, that it is for sure a battle RB#2 from summer 1943 and not the usual long service award, I can not imagine a dealer or collector, who would sell such item for mere USD 1500,-.

I can also imagine, that Igor might ask for such a RB#2 more than USD 3000,- (incl. research) ...

Best regards

Christian

High end fakes of RBL-screwbacks

Gentlemen,

as I told, I bought that RBL-screwback in spring 1994 in Vienna.

At that time, the 3 main dealers in Vienna (who had a very strong cooperation among each other) purchased their items at the town of Uzhgorod http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzhhorod close to the Hungarian border. So almost 100 % of my Soviet collection went via Ukraine to Vienna.

Due to the fact, that my dealer had several RBL-screwbacks to choose from, I guess, that my order might have come to Vienna in 1993 or even 1992 (EUR 150,- had been quite a lot of money for a Soviet order at that time ... ).

There had been high end fakes at that time in the early 1990s. I myself wasted two times EUR 150,- for a nice, but casted RB-screwback and for a strucked Nachimov medal. Years later, I dedected, that these two items had been very typical fakes: Despite the genuine enamel, the RB was clearly casted and the Nakhimov was far too thick and Nachimov's nose lacked profile. Both items looked like fresh from the mint, what was true in a certain meaning .

My theory about high end fakes in the early 1990s:

The well known manufactories of the forgers in the Baltics wanted to make easy money.

It is rather easy to cast a RB-screwback and to put real enamel on it.

It is rather easy to struck a Nakhimov medal.

For both of them the retail price in Vienna was at that time about EUR 150,-. So I guess, that the forger in the Baltics might have got something about EUR 30,- for a faked RB-screwback or a faked Nakhimov. EUR 30,- had been a lot of money in the early 1990s in the new states of the former Soviet Union.

The retail price for a RBL-screwback had been at those times also EUR 150,-.

My question is: Why should have Mr. forger XYZ in the Baltics invested much more time and craftmanship (I think, it's a relationship of 10:1) into making a faked RBL-screwback, if he gets the some money for a easy done RB or Nakhimov medal ?

I guess, that the large scale forging of the RBL-screwbacks started when the prices for these items went beyond a RB or Nakhimov medal - just my theory from the viewpoint of a business man.

Best regards

Christian

I don't see any matches at the Mondvor site so that's not good.

Dear Eric,

I found an ident match at Andrew's Mondvor site (also with a almost similar s/n.):

The problem might be, that Andrew has a completly different classification, than PMD in the "Red Bible". Andrew calls the RBL I have in my collection type 2 / variant 2 / version 1.

Dimitry Markov has an ident one on his website, as I already noted and Igor offers for USD 11.000,- an ident item, but a r.i. order with low s/n.: http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18389

Best regards

Christian

Dear Tony,

Igor offers a RB #2 (but from a much later series!) for USD 2.600,-:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18371

Best regards

Christian

WOW....and to think I forgot I had it......

Thanks for the info Christian....I guess on some level I was smart to move the regular RBs and keep this one....Seems like the Red Banners now are commanding what I paid for this one.....craziness

One more avers & screwplate + screwpost

Dear Eric,

dear Marc,

many thanks for your remarks .

Sorry for the extremly bad scans , I don't have a digital camera and I just used a friend's one, when that order was for presentation to a collectors friend out of the bank vault.

Here are some more scans of that (bad) series:

Best regards

Christian

Dear Tony,

very nice and well preserved item - with a rather low s/n. .

Might even be a type 3 / version 1 of the RB #2 .

Dealers are asking now about 2k bucks for such an order ...

Best regards

Christian

Partisan Medal 1st Class

Gentlemen,

that's my Partisan Medal 1st Class, which I bought in spring 1994 for EUR 55,- in Vienna:

Best regards

Christian

Screwplate of RBL T2/V1 s/n. 8660

Sideviews of RBL T2/V1 s/n. 8660

Red Banner of Labour, Type 2 / Version 1

Gentlemen,

in spring 1994 I bought in Vienna a RBL screwback. My dealer had several to choose for EUR 150,- and I took the order with the most perfect enamel - no chips & bright colour. MONDVOR mintmark and the maker's mark is a "b".

Years later I noticed, that I had a type 2 / version 1, but with a s/n. 8660, which would be more matching to type 2 / version 2.

Dimitry Markov offers now at his website an ident RBL T2/V1 with another rather high s/n. 8379 - despite a chip at the red star of that order, Dimitry asks USD 5.800,- for that item: http://www.russian-medals.net/ .

According to PMD's "Red Bible" such high s/n. should not occour at the version 1 of the RBL T2-screwback.

Gentlemen, what's your opinion about it ?

Best regards

Christian

Meritorious Pilot of the CCCP

Dear Bryan,

I have done a better scan of the medal - the TU 144 is always without AEROFLOT & CCCP:

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Does anyone know, how rare these title-medals are and what the current market value might be ? (Alexei sold one of these some time ago for about USD 800,-)

Sorry for the late response. I wish to thank you for the information!

he is wearing a "toy" uniform with the awards of his dead father or brother.

Was that common and allowed in the CCCP ?

Best regards

Christian

Lieber Waldemar,

as Andreas pointed out: The sloppy letters are - in my view - a 100 % guarantee, that your Nevsky is a "copy".

I had a closer look at my own two T2 Nevskys http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14011 and at some T3 in the internet: The letters are in all cases very precise & correct. Even if the picture of prince Nevsky is rather worne, the letters are still sharp & crispy.

Best regards

Christian

Gentlemen,

is that young boy a sergeant of the Soviet airforce ?

There had been thousends of these (very young) children in the GPW with a Glory, RS, medals etc., but I never noticed a sergeant 10-years-old ...

Best regards

Christian

Dear Auke,

many thanks for that highly intersting list .

Which source ?

Best regards

Christian

Zverev and Merkulov are correct, the others aren't. So, you have six correct answers, which is enough in my opinion.

Congratulations, and go ahead with the next question.

By the way, here are the 43 People's Commissariats:

Defense - S.K. Timoshenko

Navy - N.G. Kuznetsov

Internal Affairs - L.P. Beria

State Security - V.N. Merkulov

Foreign Affairs - V.M. Molotov

Justice - N.M. Rychkov

Connections (signals) - I.T. Peresypkin

Aircraft Industry - A.I. Shakhurin

Medium Machine Building - V.A. Malyshev

Ammunition - P.N. Goremykin

Armaments - D.F. Ustinov

General Machine Building - P.I. Parshin

Industry of Building Materials - L.A. Sosnin

Machine-Tool Construction - A.I. Yefremov

Ship-Building Industry - I.I. Nosenko

Heavy Machine Building - N.S. Kazakov

Electrical Industry - V.V. Bogatyrev

Power Stations - A.I. Letkov

Light Industry - S.G. Lukin

Meat and Dairy Industry - P.V. Smirnov

Food Industry - V.P. Zotov

Fish Industry - A.A. Ishkov

Textile Industry - I.N. Akimov

Oil Industry - I.K. Sedin

Carbon Industry - V.V. Vakhrushev

Non-Ferrous Metallurgy - P.F. Lomako

Ferrous Metallurgy - I.F. Tevosyan

Chemical Industry - M.F. Denisov

Rubber Industry - T.B. Mitrokhin

Communication - L.M. Kaganovich

River Fleet - Z.A. Shashkov

Sea Fleet - S.S. Dukelsky

Construction - S.Z. Ginzburg

Foreign Trade - A.I. Mikoyan

Domestic Trade - A.V. Lyubimov

Supplies - V.A. Donskoi

Agriculture - I.A. Benediktov

Grain and Cattle Sovkhozes - P.P. Lobanov

Lumber Industry - F.V. Sergeyev

Cellulose and Paper Industry - N.N. Chebotarev

State Control - L.Z. Mekhlis

Public Health - G.A. Mitelev

Finance - A.G. Zverev

What was the name of the train? Which unit was responsible for running the train from September 30th 1971.

Dear Frank,

I guess, you ask for the INTERZONENZUG http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interzonenzug from FRG to GDR.

"Running the train" is a difficult question - what does "running" mean ?

Well, the Trapo (Transportpolizei) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportpolizei was reponsible for all sorts of transport.

At the Interzonenz?ge the PKE (Passkontrolleinheiten) of the Hauptabteilung VI of the Ministerium f?r Staatssicherheit (MfS) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passkontrolleinheit played an important role. They had uniforms of the GT (DDR Grenztruppen) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenztruppen_der_DDR .

A nice video of the Interzonenzug: http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1928693

Best regards

Christian

Dear Bryan,

many thanks for that interesting link .

There is a lot of truth in these stories, but I guess they people in the westbalkans are missing more that nostalgic "Yugoslavian-Feeling", than Marshal Tito himself as a person, who had been indeed something like a dictator.

It seems, that the demand for orders & medals of Yugoslavia 1943 - 1991 might grow . Might be, that the market price for one of these incredible beautiful & rare YU-HSL http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19344 will be EUR 50.000,- in 5 years .

Best regards

Christian

Interesting article for this sub-forum taken on the International Herald Tribune site.

<a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/27/europe/nostalgia.php" target="_blank">http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/27/europe/nostalgia.php</a>