DutchBoy

Definitely an under-appreciated market. How long before prices start to rise for Yugo awards? I think the market is due...

Ed,

It's great to have those three next to each other...great comparo! Would you have a Karl Marx order as well? Kind of different I guess, but in similar vein...

Hi Tang Si,

The repairs are on the left and the right side of the banner. It was so expertly done that you have to see it from a very specific angle to notice the repair. It was sent to an expert enameller by a previous owner.

The number of my order is #1464. For the rest it is in excellent shape and I think it's a great order.

Ed,

Another great collection of items you have. Those old DPRK orders are actually quite something! I have quite a few of the new versions of orders, just because they were cheap and I wanted to see them in person. They're just OK. But I just got in this 1st type Order of Labor, and it is spectacular! It has enamel repair in several places, but it is exquisitely done and for this price it was a bargain. I can't wait to get another old-type DPRK order.

Lovely Dutch bar and great that it comes with the documents and other paperwork and items! Always interesting to see awards from the old Motherland...

Matthijs.

Ibrahim,

Very nice collection, and very nicely presented! I don't collect Nazi-era stuff myself but they are cool pieces and you've brought them together in an effective and pleasing arrangement.

Please do post some of your Singapore militaria when you've had a chance to arrange them the way you want it...don't see much of that stuff around.

Chris,

Out of curiosity, do you have any of those cartoons you can post here? Sounds very interesting!

Handsome medal Ed! I like the reverse particularly...much more decorative than so many medals these days. reminds me of the British medals of the late 1800s to some extent.

My test is: Would you see a self-respecting WWI ace like Baron von Richthofen wearing something like this, on a smart Prussian uniform with all his other goodies? I think that's resounding NO!

Igor's Mongolian prices are also something to be seen to be believed...

Mongolian Civil Valor

He also just sold a Polar Star 1st for $12,000 (and quickly removed from his site...maybe he's ashamed of himself?) that no one else could possibly sell for $9,000 or even $8,000! And it sold almost right away.

I think it's fine to pay more to buy from a reputable dealer who goes out of his way to get rare pieces or pieces in the best condition possible...but there's a reasonable premium and then there's just plain gouging!

Just came in today. The South African Prisons Service Cross for Merit (Suid-Afrikaanse Gevangenisdiens se Kruis vir Meriete). Postnominals CPM (Crux Pro Merito). Awarded to non-comissioned officers only "who have distinguished themselves by rendering outstanding service, on the grounds of ability, efficiency, perseverance, or devotion during discharge of their duties in the SAPS."

Obviously modelled after the Iron Cross...pretty cool. In gold-plated sterling with green enamel.

Bob,

While it is true that he, like most royals and most politicians around the world, was awarded many orders by virtue of his birth and position, he did actually earn several of them. To quote from the Wikipedia article about him:

"During the German Invasion, the Prince, carrying a machine gun, organised the palace guards into a combat group and shot at German planes....In 1940 flight Lieutenant Murray Payne instructed the prince to fly a Spitfire. The prince made 1000 flight-hours in a spitfire with the British 322 squadron wrecking two planes during landings. As "Wing Commander Gibbs ( RAF )" Prince Bernhard flew over occupied Europe in a B-24 bomber attacking V-1 launch pads, he was in a B-25 Mitchell bomber bombing Pisa, over the Atlantic ocean bombing a submarine and in an L-5 reconnaissance plane over occupied Europe. Prince Bernhard was awarded the Dutch Flying Cross for his "ability and perseverance" (Dutch: "bekwaamheid en volharding")......From 1942 to 1944 Bernhard flew as a pilot with the Royal Air Force. He also helped organise the Dutch resistance movement and acted as personal secretary for Queen Wilhelmina."

I think it took some guts to fly sorties into enemy territory that once used to be his homeland, at the risk of crash landing and being captured...One can only imagine what his fate would have been compared to any other pilot captured by the Germans. They considered him a traitor. He could have stayed quietly behind in England and ridden out the war but he chose to fight instead (and against the wishes of his mother-in-law Wilhelmina).

So don't judge him as a royal waistrel so quickly...

Nice set of awards... any one of us would have gotten them as well if we would be married to the Dutch royal family. THe question is, what did Bernhard do to EARN these awards? Besides:

- driving around France in his jeep with body guards?

- collecting money under the table from Lockheed

- etc.

As you can guess, I am - although Dutch - not a monarchist.

Hi Soviet,

A beautiful set! If you can aquire that go ahead! One thing to watch out for though...Aparently there are fakes of this medal. Many of them tend to be easily recognizable by the fact that they are of gold-plated bronze and of hollow construction, but: buyer beware.

Hi Servicepub,

There are quite a few South African apartheid-era awards that had diamonds. Being a diamond-rich country that would not be surprising. Let me run through all of them for completion's sake.

The first is the Honoris Crux Diamond, as you see in my avatar. However, it was never awarded before it was scrapped in the 1990s. Two other awards are South African Department of Correctional Services awards: The Star of Excellence (postnominals SPE) and the Cross for Valour diamond grade (CPV). The latter was also never awarded before it was cancelled.

Another one is the SA Railways Police Star for Distinguished Leadership (SEE).

Now as to the one you may be talking about, that Defence Attache probably has one of the two following decorations:

1. order of the Star of South Africa (non-military division). The grand cross comes with a diamond in the centre and has postnominals SSA. (See picture)

2. Decoration for Meritorious Service (DMS). This neck badge has no less than 5 diamonds and is a Department of Foreign Affairs award.

Your man would probably qualify for both, although they are both VERY high awards.

Hope this helps.

Several years ago I met the SA Defence Attache to Ottawa. We discussed medals and he told me that he had one which included a diamond. This medal also allowed the use of post-nominals by the holder. He was too modest to provide much more than this (and it was a struggle to get that much out of him). Does anyone have an image and info on this decoration?

reverse. Note the silver mark on the left medal, although from what I can tell it is not actually made of silver...

Compare the medal on the left with the same medal in post #11, they have different reverses. This one is the later type.

A pair of South African Police medals. Left, the 20 year faithful service medal, serial numbered. On the right, the Reconciliation and Amalgamation medal, issued in 1995 to celebrate the amalgamation of the South African Police (SAP) with the police services of the various homelands which had ceased to exist the year before. The new service was renamed the South African Police Service (SAPS).

Ed,

A great help with a VERY confusing and largely unexplored array of badges.

Here's the link to the other thread on this topic....some lively discussion there too

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13408

What a moronic piece of legislation....

It is definitely of superior quality! I'm not sure who made it, but enjoy it!

Yankee,

I'm also not sure if your award is actually silver or just plated silver. Very often, Royal Bulgarian awards only came in solid silver for the top three classes only, the lower ones being made of tombac and are usually quite light in feel. Although, maybe on the earlier pieces they were silver. But if you don't find any mint marks maybe that would be why.

Hi Yankee,

Your piece could have been manufactured by several makers. It seems to be a pre-WW1 model because most of those had the date 1915 on the front and the 1879 on the reverse, while you just have the 1879 date on the reverse.

This narrows the makers down. When the award was first manufactured in 1880 it was done in Russia by the Keibel company. Between the 1880s and 1915 they were variously manufactured in Austro-Hungary, and France, so your piece is probably from one of those three countries. After 1915 they were manufactured in Austria, Germany, and later in Bulgaria itself.

Hope this helps,

(source: "Bulgarian Orders and Medals" byTodor Petrov (2005).

Cool, thanks! Again, nice piece!

Hi "Polizei der Mongolei,"

As of yet it is not possible to research Mongolian orders by serial number, so unless an order or group of orders comes with documents it is impossible for collectors to find out who they belonged to.

Like in many communist countries people often sell their orders and medals because they either have no more sentimental value to them or their descendants, or they simply need the money because they're poor. I think robberies do occur of course, but the vast majority of orders and medals reach the market by the original owners or their descendants selling them off (as happens in most countries).

So when you say: "No self-respecting Mongolian would sell their hard earned Awards for few dollars" I think you are wrong. Respect doesn't feed a family or buy you electricity. And again, very often their children don't care about their parents' or grandparents' awards, as happens all around the world. Sad but true...

Of course sad stories like the one you mention do happen and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. Robbing a one hundred year old veteran of his hard-earned orders is disgusting! If you can find out the serial numbers maybe you should post them in this forum so those who collect Mongolian items can watch out for them.

Very nice cross!

Since I'm quite new to Imperial, maybe this is a stupid question, but is this 1st class larger than the 2nd class on suspension? I have a second class and am debating whether to get this 1st class also. So if it's larger then it would be even more worth getting. I've never seen a pic of the two classes together so I can't tell. (Does a size difference also exist or not for the Iron Cross?)

Thanks,