Destruction

FYI...a silver one

Brian,

The one with black cord is described by Klietmann. Since it was done based on his writings to Pfeffer himself, I hope we can trust him in this very case.

I was thinkin about silver grade as well first, but we did compare it to a silver one, and no--it's black. Does not look like oxidation.

Best!

Serg

Hi Eric,

Hmmmm...what makes you so sure it's a Randow cross? Not Awaloff , f.e.? It's a private purchase anyway as it does not look like any known type used for official awarding IMO.

Serge

Isn't yours with gold cord? Anyway, very nice. I feel these are grossly undervalued in Nimmergut's reference. They really don't turn up very often at all. But, I guess i shouldn't complain since I picked it up for less than even the current low catalogue price.

Did you mean silver cord? This one for sure is black, we compared it to silver one closely.

Yep, the price was good, congrats! I had a huge desire to buy it myself, to be honest

Thanks Destruction,

I didn´t even know that different classes exist.

Now I´ve to check the Militärpaß.

Regards

Andreas

Andreas,

It was pretty complicated. Fangschnur of VII. Armee-Korps (FK Duesseldorf, Lichtschlag etc) had only 2 classes, usual green and green with additional silver cord (for 3 and 9 months). Pfeffer went further. He used two classes, but also added one more, with black cord, making it in 3 grades (for FK Pfeffer only).

Best!

Serg

Here is the Fangschnur.

Very nice, Brian, I'm glad this one went to a good hands

Here is mine, the highest (3rd) grade with black cord.

Wow, Andreas, you seems to be an endless source of scarce Freikorps paper treasures Thanx for showing!

The armshield is that of Freiwilligen Bataillon von Bulow of the Brigade Schaulen of which 3rd Kurland Regt. was a part.

Nothing to add, Brian is right, it's FK Buelow arm shild.

Best!

Serg

Andreas,

Very, veeery good Not that often you can see Baltenkreuz certificate issued not by Baltischer National Ausschuss. I've seen 3 of these and all were issued by Detachment Poensgen...interesting. Also IC2 certificate from Freikorps unit is unusual to say the least, congratulations! Is there any chance to see a close up picture of sleeve shild from the last foto? Thanx in advance!

Let's corrupt this forum as well Hope it will gain more interest here... some of mine.

Here are mine, Marine Brigade von Loewenfeld. Interesting to see what's happened to this Leutnant zur See in future http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRMACHT/KRIEGSMARINE/Konteradmirals/GADOW_HANS-JOACHIM.html

Hi Chris,

Yep, the maker is still not identified for this badge. As for feathers, they may vary: minimum is 3, maximum--5

No. You misunderstood what I said. I meant that some fakes are being manufactured in those places. But, they're being manufactured in Germany too as well as other countries. I didn't mean that collectors (like you) are selling fakes. I haven't encountered anything like that. But, in the case of crooks like the "Club". for example, I don't believe that they are directly making the fakes that they sell. I believe they're being made by others, likely outside Germany and sold by the "Club" and other spurious dealers. It's a long-held practice to use eastern European jewellers, largely because jewelers in eastern Europe still retain many of the old skills. Klietmann and Blass, for example had very finely-made Knight's Crosses (among other things) made in Hungary in the 1970s, and then passed these off as originals and largely got away with it because they had established-reputations. Then, there's Klietmann's collection of Godet dies, which he used to produce all manner of "authentic" stuff after 1945, which is why I get great amusement when the new breed of "expert" in Germany waxes poetic about this Godet piece or that, when there's a good chance that the piece is one of Klietmann's. Many long-time collectors know the truth about these two gentlemen, and their accomplices. Unfortunately, enough time has passed that their well-made fakes have now gone into 2nd and 3rd generation collections as genuine items. Fortunately, because of the Internet, it's far more difficult to pull off this type of major misrepresentation. But, there are still people out there, despite the warnings from forums like this, who are buying the fakes from the "Club" and other sellers, for example.

As an aside, the interesting thing is that despite all the warnings about dealing with Russians (a lot of German eBay sellers won’t sell to them), it's Germans, who have given me the most grief as a collector, and the French, Belgians and Spanish who have caused the most problems for me as a seller on eBay. My Russian customers on eBay are among my best. They pay good prices and always pay on time. The French are among the worst. They bid and never pay. The most dishonest sellers I've encountered are Germans. They don't accept returns or give refunds and some are among the nastiest people I've ever encountered.

Hi Brian,

Thanx for making it clear. I do apologize if I was too brutally ironic in some posts.

Back to the object of discussion. A question--does any of you gents have ever seen an award list to this medal? I mean , it's a kinda usual to see Eiserne Division and SSVK medals urkunde, but I have never seen one for this medal. Have you?

Hi,

I cannot remember where I heard it for the first time, but "latvian fakes" has been a term used on most of the forums for quite some time, less now than a few years ago and usually talking about WW2... cant remember when I last heard it...

Hi Chris,

Yep, "Latvian Fakes" was a term used for some well made Imperial and 3rd Reich fakes some time ago, supposedly produced in here. I'm not happy with this name, but I take it easy Anyway, this term never included Freikorps items.

Hi Brian,

Except mentioning Chichikalov as a maker of infamous copies (some of which are even maker marked as such) I do not recall myself telling about any other FK decorations reproduced, especially in Baltics.

Anyway, can you pls check again the post on which I reacted? I do not care if someone is telling that fakes are produced in Russia, Latvia, Thailand or USA, but what you wrote was a clear attempt to connect collectors from mentioned countries with increasing quantity of fakes coming from this locations--that's how it looked for me. Does it mean that in your opinion i provide items from my collection to fakers? Or some other guys do?

I'm sure I'll get hate mail for saying this. But, ever since the the Poles, those from the Baltic states and especially the Russians started collecting Freikorps material, the amount of well-made fakes has risen exponentially, and a lot of these fakes are coming from these locations.

WTH dude? Thanx a lot for good words, I'm coming exactly from Baltics and collecting Freikorps. And since I know only one other guy from Estonia with the same area of interest, I believe this addressed to us? Amazing. Would be nice to hear some comments.

I can also add that the best books up to date about FK awards are written by Russian author Konstantin Nikolayev, and they really helped many people to get the right items for collection, while most of the crap sold on ebay (including the medal in this thread which has nothing to do with original medal even designwise) is coming from Germany.

With best regards,

"Those from the Baltic States"

Hi Gents,

Just a small announce...For those of you who do not afraid of Russian language.
"Gallipoli Star (Eiserner Halbmond)" by K.Nikolayev.
Russian language. Hardcover, 470 pages, full colored.
The best book on the subject at the moment. 167 badges from 55 different makers are described and classified, plus miniatures, award lists, bars, ribbon bars etc.
As an additional clause the book includes a graphic table of designs for easier comparison and identification of maker.
Some pics.

And the second one--a small group of items recently sold to one of my German friends. It was shown on WAF, so you probably seen this one. What is really interesting is that it has a counterpart reverse, unlike yours..

Hey Brian,

That's a really hard one to discuss. I can only show some pictures..first is an image from Rainer Schmitt article about subject (no reverse, sorry).

Hi Chris,

Yep, they are absolutely the same. There is one 1st class cross currently for sale at Winklers site, with the same issue.

Hi Brian,

So Jim sold his medal bar to you? Damn, I'm envy!!! This is a great addition to your collection.

As for your question--it was already asked twice on German and Russian forums, without any serious answers...

This is Erinnerungszeichen der Deutschen Legion.http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Legion_(1919) Established in 1920 by veteran organization of this unit. I have this badge as a part of the group of ex-member of the Legion.

Fritz Todt, wearing NSKK Uniform, with Silesian Eagle badges 1st and 2nf class

Are you sure it is Todt? Do you have any info about his Freikorps past in Upper Silesia? Moreover, I clearly see (for the first time, thanx for showing!) Freikorps Aulock badge! So the guy on a foto very well might be Hubertus von Aulock himself, he was NSKK-Brigadeführer later. Actually, he looks like Aulock

Do you think this is for the regular Silesian Eagle 2nd class, or for the Oberland Silesian award?

All the best

Chris

Hi Chris,

Congratulations on a great group including beautiful document!!! Yes, this one is for SE 2nd class. Docs for Oberland Silesian medal look different.

Here we go...