Taurus454

Better pics.

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another pic.

Hi res pics off a scanner. Sorry they are not better. Tom

Dietrich, Thanks! I appreciate this. As I said, I was aware of the single manufacture for the Eichenlaub and we are in agreement on that point. What I am about to say is not argumentative, as some would take it, but it is simply stated for the purpose of dialogue and understanding. I trully want to learn. I have personally met, spoken with, and corresponded with many Ritterkreuztrager. I have visited many in their homes and seen their awards and documents. I have seen many recipients that have two copies. When I asked why they had two, the answer was always, this is the one I received and left with my family, while this is the one I actually wore. There were many reasons for the second one: fear of losing it, breaking it, fear of having it stolen if killed or captured, wanted their beloved to have the original, and so on. I even saw one that was made in the field for the recipient because one wasn't available for issue at the front. Where is this heading, well, I ASSUMED there was multiple sources I guess because of my own personal experience. You see, I have multiple sets of my awards. There is the original which I keep with my award document and orders and will pass along to my family and there are the copies I have worn. In fact, I don't get my copies from the Army. I buy them from a commercial dealer who has them custom made and they actually look better than the ones the Army buys, issues, and sells. My wings are even pure silver and the Army issued ones are pewter or some such metal. Let me also state that five of my medals were never formally issued to me and yet I received written orders for four of them. Yes, I know it is poor leadership on the part of the Army to give me four awards and not offer me the honor of a formal presentation and I will leave it at that. The fifth award that I am entitled to came to my knowledge when someone pointed out to me an Army Regulation states that every member of the Army that served during ODS was entitled to it. I don't have orders for that but my peronnel record clearly shows I meet the requirement for it. Another point I will add is that the ribbon set I wore was "unathorized" as it had a black felt background which made the set look simply beautiful, especially if I was photographed. I learned about them when I noticed the official photographs of the Generals in my chain of command had a black background around their ribbons. That is when I learned about the felt background for ribbon bars and that they bought theirs from a certain dealer. So, you see, there are the "official" awards, the regulations governing the wearing and manufacture of the awards, and then there are those awards that are actually worn. I was hoping to see that someone had somehow got the wartime manufacturing records for L21 and could say, "look, here are the records, it covers everything they produced and sold and there are no L21 800 Eichenlaubs on the list". I would say that would go a long way in closing the debate. However, if it weren't for the actual Luftwaffe kill records I wouldn't have discovered a long forgotten trip ace that I stumbled across when I bought a unit plaque and shrapnel taken from his plane that was given to him at a location where he was temporarily stationed but as there was no "written" or documented proof his unit was there, many historians say the unit was rumored to have been there but was actually never there. Yet, I have the plaque, engraved with his name, date, and location at time of presentation, and signed by all the pilots of his squadron on the back. Again, I am not saying I believe that what I have is genuine, but then again, I am not convinced that it is a fake just yet. Any additional information or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. As I have always said, I will not be offended by any comments as I am solely interested in the truth. As always, my sincerest thanks for your time and consideration of this matter! Tom

Thanks! I have Williamson's and the usual stuff (Angola, blah, blah). This is the first I have seen of this book, is it of any value beyond the usual? Does it get to the issue of manufacturers and can you give me an idea of content and what it contributes to this discussion? Again, thank you! Tom

Could you please give me a source on this? This is the first I heard that L/21 did not at least make a jeweler's copy. I was aware that one firm had the right to the Eichenlaub but was not aware that a jeweler's copy did not come out of L/21. I can only speculate, and I say speculate, that if L/21 got an order for an Eichenlaub I see no reason why they wouldn't make one. I will say that I have witnessed much discussion regarding L/21, especially the discussions regarding EK's made by L/21. Some say yes, others say no. Yet, I have seen no L/21 records that affirm or deny to settle the question. Then again, I am not an expert in this regard and unless I stumbled across such documents would not have found it. The reference materiel I have do not cover the actual manufacture of L/21 on this topic. I sincerely hope soemone with more expertise in this area could provide greater evidence regarding the matter. Let me say that my goal here is undisputable, beyond a reasonable doubt, proof regarding L/21's contribution to the Eichenlaub. If that means I have a fake, then so be it, and I will gladly accept it as such. Truth is what is important to me. With that said, should I still provide better pics? Tom

Could you please give me a source on this? This is the first I heard of this. I was going to try and get better pics of it but I guess I don't need to now. Tom

Thought you would enjoy seeing my Eichenlaub zum Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes. Marked 800 and L21. Enjoy! Tom

Okay, bottom line is this! I posted this because I feel it is important for the community. Should any of this show up elsewhere, all I ask is that you give credit to: Collection of the Maloney Family. Enjoy and good hunting! Tom

Award Documents.

I also have a few Red Cross cards that he managed to send while a prisoner. I thought these were cool as well.

I love the Certificate of Discharge. I was only able to get a copy of the discharge. For some reason, the original was important to the family. I'm not sure if there was a legal reason for it or not.

I have some of his awards and tons of documents of his from the war. I will show some here because of its interest to collector's and to give an idea of the comprehensive nature of the collection I picked up. See if you can spot what is missing.

Here is the entry that states "hat shield"!

Attached as a page inside the folder!