QSAMIKE

The picture is a studio photo so anything could be used as props......  I do not think that they had this style of photos in the 1850's....

With the way he is dressed he looks like Mounted Infantry and is possibly Boer War........  The regiment did have a Mounted Infantry section during the Boer War........

Mike

Good Morning Peter.......

The Toronto Welcome Home medal was made by Ellis in Toronto at the behest of the City Council......  There are 3 different variations, the reverse  dated 1900, 1901, 1902.......    The majority issued to the returning troops were of the 1900 version......  They were named to each soldier with his Rank, Name and Regiment.....  You see versions with no names and these were sold as souvenir's to he general public......   You also see bronze medallions only that were also sold to the general public......

McGregor of course did not make it home so actually he should not have one but his father was very closely connected to the city council and he must have put some pressure on them to get one......

The headstone is in South Africa......   They were buried at the battle site and when being moved to a proper cemetery later they could not tell the bodies apart so they buried them together......  No such thing as dog tags then......

Mike

Good Morning Peter........

Yes a Strath's dated medal is a holy grail but I have to say that the following is the center of my collection......

You may have seen this posted before as it has been posted on BMF but I thought that it would be a good one for this forum also....

Sergeants D. B. Hammong and D. J. McGregor

Please excuse the duplication of the Hammond information.....

Mike

HAMMOND, DAYTON BROWN

BOER WAR - PART ONE

REG. NO.: 129
RANK: DRIVER
REGT: "C" BATTERY, ROYAL CANADIAN FIELD ARTILLERY
BARS: CAPE COLONY, RHODESIA, TRANSVAAL

REMARKS / HISTORY:

1. VERIFIED IN BOOK, KNOWING NO FEAR BY JIM WALLACE
2. 12 PAGES OF SERVICE DOCUMENTS
3. PHOTOGRAPH OF THE GRAVE OF D. B. HAMMOND

4. ENLISTMENT DOCUMENT

ENLISTED AT: TORONTO, ONTARIO
ON: 2ND FEBRUARY 1900
AGE: 22 YEARS
BIRTHPLACE: OWEN SOUND ONTARIO
FORMER CORPS: 31ST GREY'S BATTALION
TRADE OR CALLING: FARMER
RELIGION: CHURCH OF ENGLAND
NOK: FATHER, ROBERT HAMMOND, OWEN SOUND
ADDRESS NOK: OWEN SOUND, ONTARIO
MARRIED OR SINGLE: SINGLE
NUMBER OF CHILDREN AND AGES: NONE
HEIGHT: 5' 9 1/2"
MARKS ON PERSON: NONE
MEDICAL REPORT: FIT
DATE OF DISCHARGE: 30TH NOVEMBER 1900 TO JOIN HOWARD'S SCOUTS / CANADIAN SCOUTS

BOER WAR - PART TWO

REG. NO.: 129
RANK: SERGEANT
REGT: HOWARD'S / CANADIAN SCOUTS
BARS: ENTITLED TO ORANGE FREE STATE, SOUTH AFRICA 1901
NOT WITH MEDAL

REMARKS / HISTORY:

ENLISTMENT DOCUMENT

RANK: SERGEANT
REGIMENTAL NUMBER: 129
ENLISTED AT: CAPETOWN, SOUTH AFRICA
ON: 1ST DECEMBER 1900
AGE: 23 YEARS
BIRTHPLACE: OWEN SOUND ONTARIO
FORMER CORPS: 31ST GREY'S BATTALION / "C" BATTERY ROYAL CANADIAN FIELD ARTILLERY
TRADE OR CALLING: FARMER
RELIGION: CHURCH OF ENGLAND
NOK: FATHER, ROBERT HAMMOND, OWEN SOUND
ADDRESS NOK: OWEN SOUND, ONTARIO
MARRIED OR SINGLE: SINGLE
NUMBER OF CHILDREN AND AGES: NONE
HEIGHT: 5' 9 1/2"
MARKS ON PERSON: NONE
MEDICAL REPORT: FIT
DATE OF DISCHARGE: KILLED IN ACTION, 27TH JANUARY 1901, EERSTE FABRIKER

LETTER TO FATHER, ROBERT HAMMOND FROM LIEUTENANT T. RYAN:
(Officer in Command of Patrol) (Italics Mine)

Standerton

February 17th, 1901

Dear Mr. Hammond

I arrived here from Ermelo Friday. We started for Belfast with four hundred sick and wounded and got within twenty miles and had to turn back. Had had to fight every mile to within five miles of here. The escort was very small and we had we had twenty-five hundred head of cattle and horses (unable to read) and hundred Boer families.

I suppose you have heard I was captured by the Boers and lost one Colt gun, two men killed, (Hammond and McGregor) and one very badly wounded on 27th January. It was not far from where Borden was killed, between Whitpoort and Diamond Hill. I was sent with the advance line of Scouts of Gen. Alderson's column with our Colt gun and five men, Gen. Knox on our right and Campbell on the left and it was twelve miles between them that we had to cover. Our Canadian Scouts, only seventy-five, had to keep in touch with both columns in order to do this, leaving a gap in the center of about one mile and a half where I was ordered to go which was the main road, another great mistake.

We got four miles in advance of the support, which was no fault of mine. After going about fifteen miles and I found no one in front of me I sent two men in advance. I could see Scouts on the left flank. On seeing a small kopje on my right front I sent another of my men to see if it was unoccupied, leaving only two men and myself with the gun. The two already out went to a farm house which was about four hundred yards to the right of the kopje and straight to my front as the roas (unable to read) close by. The one man went over the small kopje all right. When within a few hundred yards of the farm house I could see two men, as I thought the men I had sent ahead. One waved his hand. I told the Sergt. Major (McGregor) in charge of the gun to remain where he was until I went to see if everything was clear. So I put the spurs to my horse - when within one hundred yards of the house a Boer dressed in khaki with a felt hat like ours waved his hand and then walk [sic] around the corner of the house. I bolted down around the corner of the house and into the arms of seventy-five Boers with their rifles looking me in the face. Of course I dismounted. I found one of my men wounded and the others prisoners. The woulded man tried to escape and they shot him but it was back of the house and I was ahead (unable to read) hundred yards away I did not hear the shot. The same Boer thay decoyed me walked to the front and waved his hand again. The next thing I saw was the gun coming and they got within sixty yards when they saw that something was wrong and Sergt Major McGregor dismounted, unlimbered the gun but the Boers opened fire killing both the men with the gun. (Hammond and McGregor)

In about seven (unable to read) Prinsloo allowed he was in command of the Boers. I had a long talk with him (unable to read). He asked me lots of questions. Well he says, where are you going? I'm going with you I suppose. He laughed and said ok, I mean where were you going? Of course I did not know very much about things. After about three quarters of an hour he said I could send my man for an ambulance and that I could go with him as our column had halted. He was not (unable to read). Prinsloo had his staff with him, they were all dressed in khaki. Some had helmets, others had felt hats turned up at the side with a badge - the Transvaal coat of arms. When the gun was well away, he said where is your horse? I told him I did not know as they took him away. Some Boers went off with (unable to read). Well he said, as that man is badly wounded you had better remain with him as it may be some time before the ambulance arrives, and away he went. It was about three hours before the ambulance arrived.

When I reported to the Gen. He said that it was no place for the gun and I should have had an escort so I got clear of everything.

Letter ends here, looks like there was more but this is all that survived.


LETTER TO COLONEL OTTER FROM FATHER, ROBERT HAMMOND:

Owen Sound, April 14th, 1902

To Colonel Otter Stanley Barracks

Dear Sir,

Ever since the soldiers received their medals I have thought of writing to you. I do not see why the parents of deceased soldiers who fell in South Africa would not receive their medals their sons who would have received had they returned. Was not their lives given for their country? Were they not as brave as those who lived to return and receive the medals. I for one would like to receive the medal my son would have got had he lived to return. There is one part of it which I think the hardest to bear and that is he was killed by the British by a mistaken order, this we have learned from a comrade who was on the field at the time. His No. Was 129 and his name was Dayton Brown Hammond. Now I hope to hear from you soon about this as we think it right we should receive the medal. He was killed at a place called East Frabickew (sp - Eerste Fabriker) on the 27th January, 1901.

Yours truly

Robert Hammond
Spring Mount, Ontario

April 14th, 1902

To Colonel Otter

Dear Sir,

I opened this letter again just to mention that my son was in C Battery for a year and was then allowed to come home but reinlisted in Howard's Scouts and was with them from 1st Dec. until the 27th Jan. 1901 the day he was killed.

Robert Hammond
Spring Mount, Ontario

After receiving the letter, Colonel Otter started the paperwork to have the medal delivered to Hammond's father.....

The medal was presented to Mr. Robert Hammond personally by Colonel Otter in May of 1902.....

McGREGOR, DUNCAN JOHN

BOER WAR - PART ONE

REG. NO.: 134
RANK: GUNNER
REGT: "C" BATTERY, ROYAL CANADIAN FIELD ARTILLERY
BARS: CAPE COLONY, RHODESIA, TRANSVAAL

REMARKS / HISTORY:

1. VERIFIED IN BOOK, KNOWING NO FEAR BY JIM WALLACE
2. 7 PAGES OF SERVICE DOCUMENTS
3. PHOTOGRAPH OF THE GRAVE OF D. J. MCGREGOR
4. CITY OF TORONTO WELCOME HOME MEDAL, NAMED SERGEANT MAJOR D. MCGREGOR. (Most likely claimed by his father as he was KIA when the medals were given out)

5. ENLISTMENT DOCUMENT

ENLISTED AT: TORONTO, ONTARIO
ON: 2ND JANUARY 1900
AGE: 22 YEARS
BIRTHPLACE: TORONTO, ONTARIO
FORMER CORPS: 14TH FIELD BATTERY ROYAL CANADIAN ARTILLERY
TRADE OR CALLING: MACHINEIST
RELIGION: PRESPERTERIAN
NOK: FATHER, RICHARD MCGREGOR
ADDRESS NOK: 99 GLADSTONE AVENUE, TORONTO, ONTARIO
MARRIED OR SINGLE: SINGLE
NUMBER OF CHILDREN AND AGES: NONE
HEIGHT: 5' 9 1/2"
MARKS ON PERSON: NONE
MEDICAL REPORT: FIT
DATE OF DISCHARGE: 30TH NOVEMBER 1900 TO JOIN HOWARD'S SCOUTS / CANADIAN SCOUTS

BOER WAR - PART TWO

REG. NO.: 129
RANK: SERGEANT
REGT: HOWARD'S / CANADIAN SCOUTS
BARS: ORANGE FREE STATE, SOUTH AFRICA 1901

REMARKS / HISTORY:

ENLISTED AT: CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA
ON: 30TH NOVEMBER 1900
AGE: 22 YEARS
BIRTHPLACE: TORONTO, ONTARIO
FORMER CORPS: 14TH FIELD BATTERY ROYAL CANADIAN ARTILLERY AND "C" BATTER R.C.F.A.
TRADE OR CALLING: MACHINEIST
RELIGION: PRESPERTERIAN
NOK: FATHER, RICHARD MCGREGOR
ADDRESS NOK: 99 GLADSTONE AVENUE, TORONTO, ONTARIO
MARRIED OR SINGLE: SINGLE
NUMBER OF CHILDREN AND AGES: NONE
HEIGHT: 5' 9 1/2"
MARKS ON PERSON: NONE
MEDICAL REPORT: FIT
DATE OF DISCHARGE: KILLED IN ACTION, 27TH JANUARY 1901, EERSTE FABRIKER

LETTER TO E.F. JARVIS FROM FATHER, RICHARD MCGREGOR:

Toronto, Nov. 11th, 1901

To: Ernest Jarvis, Esq. Ottawa

Re: Medal of Late Sergeant Major D. J. McGregor, Canadian Scouts

Dear Sir,

I quite expected to have received my sons medal before this date. You will recollect that I signed for it at the Armouries here and you promised to forward it to my address by registered packet. Trusting you will give the matter early attention.

I am yours truly:

R. McGregor
99 Gladstone Avenue


LETTER TO R. MCGREGOR FROM E. F. JARVIS:

REGISTER

Ottawa, 12th Nov., 1901.

Dear Sir,

In reply to your letter of the 11th instant, I have the honour to forward herewith, registered, your late son's South African War medal, with clasps, which this day have been received.

I regret not having forwarded you the medal sooner, I must have in some way mislaid the note I made that I was to do so.

You will kindly acknowledge reciept.

Yours very truly,

E. F. Jervis


FROM:

THE COLONIALS IN SOUTH AFRICA 1899-1902 by John Sterling. (Quoted for research purposes only, Page 316)

"As it appears from Lieutenant Moeller's Diary, the Canadian Scouts were constantly in the very front, and of course they had to pay the price; indeed on the following day, 27th January, he records that 2 scouts were killed. These were Sergeant Major D. J. M'Gregor and Sergeant D. B. Hammond. Sergeant W. S. Gordon was wounded. All three had served with 'C' Battery Canadian Artillery."

FROM:

KNOWING NO FEAR, The Canadian Scouts in South Africa 1900-1902 by Jim Wallace. (Quoted for research purposes only)

On January 27th, Alderson's column marched via Kleinfontein and Tweedracht to Kameelkraal. Two companies of the Mounted Infantry went to the left via Puntlift to Witfontein then back to Roodekoppies along the right bank of Bronkhorstspruit, driving about 60 Boers ahead of them. As they moved forward, the Scouts suffered their first fatal casualties at Vlakkraal, when SERGEANT MAJOR DUNCAN MCGREGOR and SERGEANY DAYTON HAMMOND were killed, Sergeant Walter Gordon was wounded and one of the Scouts' Colt guns was captured by the Boers. As Anderson's column moved forward, with Knox's column on their right and Campbell's on their left, the Canadian Scouts formed a screen well in advance of the main column. Seventy-five Scouts had to keep in touch with both flanking columns over a front of twelve miles. Lieutenant Ryan, with five men and a Colt ghun, was ordered to fill a gap of about a mile and a half in the centre where the main road ran.

After advancing some 15 miles, Ryan's men found no sign of the enemy. Two of his Scouts were in advance and Ryan could see them going to a farmhouse ahead of him. When he a small kopje on the right he sent a man to see if it was occupied and watched him as he went over the hill. When Ryan was within a few hundred yards of the farmhouse he saw two men who, he believed, were the two he sent forward. When one of the men waved to him, Ryan told SERGEANT MAJOR MCGREGOR, who was incharge of the gun, to stay where he was with SERGEANT HAMMOND while he, Ryan, checked to see if the way was clear. Ryan then put the spurs to his horse and when within a hundred yards of the house saw a figure in khaki, with a felt hat, wave his hand and go around the corner of the house. Ryan followed him "around the corner.... Into the arms of seventy-five Boers with their rifles looking me in the face." He found his men, other than MCGREGOR AND HAMMOND, had been taken prisoner and one of them, Sergeant Gordon, was shot and wounded when he attempted to escape.

The Boer who decoyed Ryan then walked to the front of the house and waved MCGREGOR forward with the Colt gun, When he was about sixty yards out, MCGREGOR sensed that something was wrong so dismounted and unlimbered the gun. The Boers immediately opened fire, killing both MCGREGOR AND HAMMOND. Ryan said the Boer commander Prinsloo, and his staff were dressed in khaki, some with helmets and others wearing felt hats turned up at the side with a badge of the Transvaal coat of arms. When Ryan was captured, he talked to Prinsloo for three quarters of an hour and was then allowed to send for an ambulance. Prinsloo told Ryan to stay with his badly wounded man until the ambulance came then he and his Burgers left, retireing to the silver mines and Kromdraai. The ambulance arrived about three hours later.

When Ryan reported to Anderson, the general was of the opinion that it had been no place to send a gun and Ryan should have been provided with an escort so he was cleared. Major Howard was, understandably, highly upset at the loss of the Colt gun and he quickly set off with a few Scouts to track it down. The party returned early the next morning after an unsuccessful search and Howard to his men that any individual or group who recaptured the gun would be given $500.00.

Within a few weeks a portrait of Sergeant McGregor was unveiled at the Gladstone Avenue School in Toronto where he had been a pupil.

There is some mystery surrounding the reports on the death of SERGEANT HAMMOND. In his documents there is a letter from his father (see above) to Lieutenat Colonel William D. Otter, which states "There is one part of it which I think the hardest to bear and that is he was killed by the British by a mistaken order, this we have learned from a comrade who was on the field at the time." Presumably the "mistaken order" was sending Ryan forward without an escort for the Colt gun, but this is not explicit in the letter and it is clear from Ryan's account that the casualties were directly from Boer fire.

End Quote.....


PICTURES...................

1. Queen's South Africa Medal to Hammon

2. Photo of Grave Site

3. Queen's South Africa Medal and Toronto Welcome Home Medal to McGregor

4. Book of Rememberance in Peace Tower with entry for Hammond

5. Book of Rememberance in Peace Tower with entry for McGregor


 

Good Morning Peter.......

I am sorry to say that there were no QSA;s issued to the South African Constabulary with the raised dates......   The ones I have are to Strathcona's Horse......

From my records Dated medals known to exist.......

1.  Strathcona's Horse:    59 Medals (plus 2 in-named) for a total of 61 

2.  Strathcona's Horse issued with dates but the dates were removed by jeweler at a later date:  48 Medals

3.  One medal each to:

Lt.Hon. F.H.S. Roberts, V.C., Natal, Relief of Ladysmith, Killed-in-Action, Colenso December 15th, 1899. This medal is stated to be Un-Named and is located at the National Army Museum.

Col. C.F. Mooses A.S.C., Belmont, Modder River, Relief of Kimberly, Paardeberg, Driefontein, Johannesburg, Diamond Hill, Wittebergen, South Africa 1901.

19467 QMS H. S. Smith, RE, Cape Colony, Paardeberg, Johannesburg.

25837 Driver E.J. Budd, 66th Battery Royal Field Artillery, Cape Colony, Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith, Transvaal, Orange Free State. 

One badly damaged with suspension and name removed so unknown who it was issued to but most likely a Strathcona......

Mike

I would if 1914 star.......  Or cheap enough......

M.

Good Evening Tony.......

Yes the list is still the same......   I missed one to HMS Widgen was over bid by 10 Pounds.......  The ones with numbers and names are all SAC......    I have picked up some Canadian medals and also found a group to my Great Uncle which was thought to be lost........

Thanks for keeping your eyes open for me.......  Mike

Hi Tony......

I am not a badge specialist but I have a funny feeling about them......    My suggestion is that you post them on the following forum and you will have an answer in a matter of minuets I am sure......

www.britishbadgeforum.com

Mike

The is a very copied badge......   Have you put it under a black light yet??????

M.

He joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1st Battalion, on September 20th, 1914 at Valcartier Camp, Quebec.......

He is listed as previous service in the Militia, 28th (Perth) Regiment for a period of 18 Months........ 

He is listed as Killed in Action 12-3-15......

R.A.O.B. is as I am sure that you know is The Royal Andalusian Order of the Buffaloes which is a service organization......

His date of birth on his documents state:   August 15th, 1893

His service documents are located here:

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=485332

Mike

That's a new one to me......    I had a similar knife only different colours......   I used in when I was in the bush......

M.

This is a Private Purchase non-military knife......   It may have been used but was not issued.......

M.

Looks like the ring may have been re-soldered........  Enamel looks OK to me from your pictures......  Sorry do not do valuations on open forum......

Mike

The 2 I/C of the unit was Sam Steele of the Strathcona's and North West Mounted Police fame and initially the SAC was supposed to be a replay of the NWMP but it did not turn out that way.....

Mike

Hi Tony......

Thanks fir the kind comments about the display......  Yes I saw the Driscoll Scouts on ebay will keep my eyes on it......

Mike

On ‎2017‎-‎09‎-‎14 at 10:45, Farkas said:

Hi Mike

i did indeed....   

thanks for the link. Excellent.

Even more tempted now to pick up one of those S.A.C. ones I mentioned....

tony

(PS you must be a busy man)

 

Hi Tony......

Yes quite busy.....  Spend at least an hour or two every day on the collection.....   Have been getting ready for a Gun and Militaria show this week end and making a display for a strictly military show in October......

Mike 

Good Morning Tony......

Yes found a couple in the QSA auction at City Coins last week.......

Mike

P.S. did you get the pm from last night?????

Good Evening Tony......

Here is my want list: Does not matter about bars

BRITISH CAVALRY:     4TH ROYAL IRISH DRAGOON GUARDS and 4TH QUEEN'S OWN HUSSARS

ROYAL NAVY SHIPS:   H.M.S. BEAGLE and H.M.S. WIDGEON

THE FOLLOWING ARE ALL SPEIFICALLY SOUTH AFRICAN CONSTABULARY MEMBERS: 

2102 3^rd CLASS TROOPER CHARLES WILLIAM RYALL

2072 1^st CLASS TROOPER WILLIE HERBERT GIBBONS

3420 3^rd CLASS TROOPER HAROLD FALTENHINE

2090 1^st CLASS TROOPER RICHARD DOUGLAS MUIR

2120 3^rd CLASS TROOPER CLAUDE LESLIE YOUNG

Also looking for Canadians who served in South Africa.........

and

Lastly, anything that strikes my fancy LOL.....

Mike

I am sorry to tell you but this is a re-named medal.......  You can see the marks under the naming where the original naming has been removed......

Mike

Good Evening Everyone......

I have been able to find a photo of Major Lynn from another forum that I thought you might like to see......

Mike

Hi Tony.......

Thanks for the kind comments.....   I am down to 2 Cavalry and 2 Naval that I am really looking for......

Mike

Sorry No Photo showing up.......

If his medal is named 694. TPR JAS. H. Galt S. A. COSTBY, then I am afraid that this medal was not officially awarded to him.....  They never used first names (JAS.) and the unit name was always S.A.C. not S.A. COSTBY.....   I have a number of medals issued to men from the founding of the unit right up until the end of the Boer War and they are all named S.A.C., including one where the man did not get his medal till 1910 .....  If he had resigned from the Ayrshire Police to join the SAC in 1906 the war had been over for 4 years and the SAC folded in 1908.....   A clue to look at is since you have the Ayrshire Police records, when did he join them?????    The medal on its edge should have all of the information Impressed and not engraved, is there a chance to see a photo of the edge.....   Can you get hold of Census information that may also give you a clue.....  Oh yes using that number I also again checked FMP nothing there, maybe if you have Ancestry there may be something there......

Sorry he may have served at the end of the SAC period but from the information that you have provided it seems that he may have given himself the medal......

Mike

44 minutes ago, SemperParatus said:

Sorry to have missed these replies. QSAMike I'll have to register on that forum to see those, what am I missing here?

I thought that you may be able to see it as a guest but there are a number of threads, questions and answers with regards to the 1897 Police Medals and Bars.....

Mike

Hello PistolPat.........

First welcome to the forum.......

1.  Can you please provide what is written on the edge of the medal, Number - Rank - Name - Unit, It will help in tracking......

2.  I have checked the roll of The Canadians in the South African Constabulary and there is no listing......

3.  I have checked Fink my Past and also there is no listing but that does not mean anything......

4.  The South African Constabulary was disbanded on June 2nd 1908 so therefore he would or should not be wearing uniform in 1913.....

He may have enlisted in England for service in South Africa.....   Some of these records are available at Kew and some in South Africa.....   Researcher in (Audrey Portman) SA I suggest is:    rhinoresearch@icon.co.za 

Mike