Les-Art

Hi Mervyn, I believe this is the badge of Cambodia as it is the State Crest of that country. I do agree that certain elements are similar to Thailand but their Police use Chrome badges. The Thai design has animals , sorry can't remeber off hand what they are, rampant on either side of a central shield containing a coat of Arms supported by columns with cone tops and right at the top is a sunburst. Apart from the very top ,the badge is not fretted out. From a distance it gives the appearance of being oval with a circle on top. So totally different overall shape. Once I work out how to post phtos I will send you a photo of a Thai police man. Cambodian Police items used to be quite difficult to find but not now, most tourists that are also collectors bring them back from holidays, mainly Germans and Australians, so don't get too excited about the value. Les

Hi Mervyn, I agree with Mike that the second cap is from the NASSAU COUNTY POLICE, New York. Rank of Sergeant. These lighter material caps ,I beleive ,were originally made in the 1960's probably lasted until the 1980's, but now the caps are made of the heavier material . Nassau County followed simimar uniform regulations as the New York City Police and I got one from them in 1975 of the summer weight and checked the stores in 1992 and they only issued one type then, so they got discontinued at some point. The first cap for TACOMA POLICE washington, I don't believe is correct. The cap is of a type used mainly in New Jersey and the East Coast of America with the double straps, one strap staying at the front and the other going across the crown to 'crush' the material and make it less inclined to get blown off while on a motorcycle, which was the tradional use for them . Although having said that the double straps tend to be put on round top caps and not the cornered variety. So this could mean that the straps have been added to the cap wrongly, and the badge belongs to the cap OR the straps and the cap badge have been added to a cap which neither belongs to. Collecting is a minefield of problems!!! Are cap strap buttons the standard gothic 'P' surrounded by leaves or do they have something related to TACOMA ? Best Regards, Les

Hi Mervyn. This cap is indeed a BELGIAN GENDARMERIE Officers Cap. It looks like the model just before amalgamation of the Police and Gendarmerie. I believe that it may be a manufacturers sample, or at the least straight out of the stores, due to the chalk marks to show the positioning of the two badges and it is the newer issue ,due to the flatness of the embroidered badges, earlier ones had padded badges which looked much more impressive than these. By newer issue I mean the last issue before amalgamation. Lower ranks had chrome metal versions of the two badges and a black plastic cap strap held on by chrome buttons of the same design. The cap strap needs tightening by the way, just makes the cap look smarter on a shelf or display. Best Regards, Les

Hi Mervyn, This cap is NOT from Thailand, it is a CAMBODIAN NATIONAL POLICE generals cap. The badge is the design used by all ranks of police officers in Cambodia, also notice the same crest on the cap strap buttons. I don't know yet if this is a particalar rank of General or the same hat used by all Generals but I'll let you when I find out for sure. Keep posting photos of the other caps you got from your deal. Best Regards, Les

Hi Paul. Here is some info on your bandolier. This is listed as a item of equipment in the 'Orders of Dress - Other Ranks 1936' and the design appears to be the same as the one you got. It does not appear in the 'Orders of Dress - Other ranks 1942' ,so was no longer issued. Yours dated 1941 must be one of the last stocks held at Regina, which probably accounts for its good condition. It was part of the 'Service order' which then included the Red Serge tunic and the Brown jacket. The Red serge was still the normal working uniform at that time. Hope this helps. I'll see what else I can tell you in my next post. Best Regards, Les

Hello Mervyn, Thanks for your comments. For subjects that interest me I delve into all aspects of that field and dig up info from where ever I can. Although in the case of the RCMP most things are fairly well documented ,if you know where to look. As I stated in a previous post I only collect issued items, so will not have any comments to offer on the un-official patches and pins. I do of course realise that they are collectable to some just not for me. Regards, Les

Hi Ed, It's a SENIOR SERGEANT. Do you collect police insignias form ONLY Australia or all over the world ? I have a couple of posts already in the RCMP thread on Pauls collection. Regards, Les

Hi Paul, Here's some more info for you. Your 'North West Mounted Police' cap badge is part of a set of four badges produced by the RCMP, from original dies, as souviners for the 100th Annivesary of the force in 1973. The boxed set had one each of the badges of the force - NWMP. RNWMP, RCMP (KC) and RCMP (QC)' These badges come up all the time as originals but the give-away that they are re-strikes is that they all have the 'Gaunt' disc on the reverse. I have been told that a set were again offered for the 125th Anniversary in 1998 ,but have not been able to confirm this. Looking at you marksmanship badges ,something to keep your eyes open for is the type of embroidery and construction of the patch. If it is a felt material cut to the shape of the design then these are used on the Red Serge tunic and Pea Coat (if red background). If it is a twill material with a merrowed edge, that is a thread finished edge, then it is used on the Brown Serge. So if you want to be a completist with your RCMP collection you should look out for these differences. There are exceptions to the rule of course like your Roughrider spur on red twill, not sure when this is used expect for the Blue Serge used by Officers and senior ranks of Sergeants. I check this out for you. Check your tie tacks and see if you have a miniature force badge, about 20mm high, single pin with twist clasp and chain to hold it in place, if you have one put it in your uniform collection as it is the official Tie pin used on duty when wearing a tie. They also have an official tie bar. I'll have to dig out my collection from it's boxes and do some photos shortly , uniform wise I have the following ; Review Order , Sergeant ,1970's issue Stetson down to boots. Service order , Constable, 1980's issue , Can make up No.1, No.2, summer long sleeve, summer short sleeve, patrol jacket. Walking out Dress, Staff Sergeant, 1930's -40's issue Believe this uniform was owned by one of the contingent that attended the Empire Exhibition in Glasgow 1938, unfortunately the owners name has been removed, presumably so it didn't come back an bite him later for losing a uniform. Also have enough other bits to make up a 1960's Service order. Always on the lookout for a few bits I'm missing ,1960's forage cap with the yellow piping around the top and can always use another pair of Strathconas. I think I still need an ammo pouch for the 1960's, the big one but it's been a while since I looked at my storage boxes. Ihave three or four different issues of Sam Browne. I might still have spare fur hat. Well that's enough about my collection back to yours. Your 1978 cap with yellow band, is the summer issue as it has had the felt band removed to reveal the webbing material. With your stetson, check to see who it belonged to, remove the leather hat band, don't unbuckle it just slide it off the top and inside should be the owners regimental number and name. Sometimes they have RCMP stamped in Black. Also names were put inside the sweat band. The WW2 officers belt from the RCASC is what it is, it is not an RCMP item, this is what I mentioned before , because the officers sam browne is similar to a British one many collectors use them to complete uniforms. Like Army regiments, RCMP members usually mark everything with names and service numbers to prevent theft. I can't see in the photo but does your Red Serge have anything on the left sleeve? Well that's all for now. If you have any questions I would be happy to try to answer them. Best Reagrds, Les

Hi Bob, Thanks for the welcome. I actually know quite a bit about world police insignias with 36 years of collecting behind me. Used to know a lot about a lot ,but forgotten a fair bit of it . I'll get back into the swing of things shortly. I have been on your threads and have learned a bit, it's the newer stuff that I am trying to catch up on and your Iraqi patch photos are very helpful. I left a question on one of your threads about an old badge you had illustrated, so it is probably better to talk about iraq subjects on your threads. Regards, Les

Hi Bmsm, I'm interested in knowing the dates of wear for the General Kassim era. I have photos of Iraqi policemen wearing this badge as far back as the 1920's. Regards, Les

Hi Mike, I think that you will find that the sword is only worn on ceremonial occasions and there are usually plenty of other Carabinieri around with weapons more handy ,like the guy in the middle of your photo, so getting to the pistol quickly is not a big issue. The working jacket shown is slightly bulkier than would be smart to enable the wearer to wear body armour under it when required. This is after all the working uniform and if you look closely at his neck line it appears he has something obscuring the collar and tie. Do you know how old the photo of the Officer wearing the cap is, I ask as for a while they were wearing a plastic version of this badge in the 1970's and 80's , it looked like embroidery from a distance but was actually embossed plastic on a felt background. Regards, Les

Hi Mervyn, Thanks for the welcome, yes , I am a collector of worldwide police insignias and uniforms since 1974. Thought I would start with something easy to see how the posting works on this forum. Joined after seeing that there was large RCMP collection on display and the only way to see the photos was to join, I've left a large post in that section if you want to have read. One of my favourite police forces. The crown over the stripes is actually a military rank taken on by the police as most of the senior officers at the time were ex-military types especially in the colonies. The met was unusual to have a metal crown over fabric stripes on the sleeve. I see you still have more tahn a passing interst in truncheons and batons, I remember when you book first came out, is it still in print ? Best Regards, Les

Hi Paul, Just joined this forum to see what you got in the collection. I have been collecting worldwide Police insignias and uniforms for 36 years and RCMP items have always interested me. Due to business commitments I haven't added much to my collection inthe past 10 years so my info may be a little out of date but the gentleman on the thread who is a current 'mountie' can check if this info is still in use. I ONLY collect 'issued' police items which means it takes longer to track them down, it took me 10 years just to find the 'Strathcona' boots to complete a Review Order uniform (Red Serge). Not to detract from your collection but you should be aware of certain things regarding RCMP items and some collectors attitudes towards them. I have seen many items offered as RCMP that aren't but look like they should be. All the appointment badges that you got which are gold wire are NOT issued, but are allowed to be worn by any member that wishes to purchase them as long as the pattern conforms to samples at the Regina HQ. This is to insure a standard quality and size. These personal purchase items are used exclusively on the Red Serge uniform. This is a way for collectors to add the more difficult items to their collections. The original badges for some that you have are VERY difficult to find outside Canada(and maybe even inside) As the Red Serge 'Review Order' is the uniform most collectors want ,a lot of those that come onto the market are altered to make them more appealing normally this is the addition of sleeve rank insignias and appointment badges. I believe that your Officers Red Serge has been altered by the addition of rank insignias on the shoulder straps, I'll explain my thinking here, officers have different Orders of Dress from other members. The 1980 uniforms regulations show the following; FULL DRESS No.1 - Red Serge Tunic with Gold embroidered eppaulettes, Parade belt with sword hangers, Cap, 'Bannana' pants *, Congress Boots with block spurs. straight Sword. Sometimes a gold aguilette is worn on the right shoulder. FULL DRESS No.2 - As above but with parade belt without sword hangers.. REVIEW ORDER No.1 - Red Serge Tunic with eppaulette rank insignias, stripped Sam Browne belt, Cap, Breeches, Riding Boots, Gloves. OR As above except with stetson replacing cap and full Sam Browne with sword. REVIEW ORDER Np.2 - Blue Tunic, White Shirt, Tie, stripped Sam Browne, Cap ,Breeches , Riding Boots, Gloves. * Bannana pants are close fitting trousers that are held under the foot by a leather strap. I believe that your Officers Tunic is the FULL DRESS No.1 which accounts for the tall button position but as the gold eppaulettes are so difficult to find someone has added the REVIEW ORDER No.1 eppaulette rank insignias. The solution is simple, obtain two small eppaulette buttons and replace the tall buttons and make it the Review Order. This would give you the top half of the uniform complete with the bits you have obtained, to complete the uniform you still need banana pants and congress boots OR riding breeches and riding boots (not Strathcona) and spurs which you have. Officers don't wear thes ame boots as the other members. It would take a while to go through all the photos you posted however here are some highlights. Air Pilot wings in Metal are used on the Mess Dress uniform. Rank stripes that are shown in pairs, I don't know the size exactly as I haven't measured the ones in my collection, if they are 3 inches across then they are for the shirt , patrol jacket, storm coat and Parka. Rank stripes with Red background are used on the Pea Coat which is dark blue. Regarding the Female uniform, if the skirt is really long down to the ground then it is the WALKING OUT DRESS and if it is about knee length then it is the REVIEW ORDER. The Review Order is now the same for both sexes. Cap Badges - You are missing two versions , the first issue Queens Crown ,I've seen this is Brass and Gilt ,it came into use in 1954 and lasted until 1962, the staybrite one didn't come in until 1963. The second issue enamel badge, which is the design of the one you have but with red enamel in the crown( rounded top to the crown 'wings', not sure what you call these bits on the crown), it is difficult to find as it may only have been issued for one year. The current cap badge has a brighter Blue enamel than the previous issues and is hard enamel. Gold thread or 'Mylar' as it is more commonly known came into use with the 1976 issue of shoulder patch, with the force badge on it, so anything you got with this tread is after 1976 and anything with yellow thread is before this but difficult to date for certain as pre 1954 insingias were also yellow thread. Well I better stop here and go and get a cup of tea organised. I'll have another look through your photos to see what else I can give you some extra information on. Hope this helps your knowledge of RCMP items and would strongly suggest that you get a copy of the Dr. Boulton book, it will be costly but worthwhile it has some excellent information and uniform photos and colour plates by Ron Volstad ,the well known military artist. Best Reagrds, Les

Ed, This the rank of Senior Sergeant and comes from the QUEENSLAND POLICE in Australia. Used during the 1970's and 80's not sure if it is still currently used. Hope this helps, Les