SEHO Knight's Cross Question

[Schießplatzmeister]

Dear Yankee:

Thank you for the scans of your wonderful Knight 2nd Class badge. It is definately a German-made piece in my opinion. It is of superb quality. The ribbon is a typical Saxon-style tri-fold (also the ONLY way that Austrians wore their awards). The Saxons often utilized this style of wear, but not always. The ribbon of course is an old silk original. A perfect piece!

The case looks Austrian to me, but for which award and which manufacturer, is anyone's guess. I do not believe that they really go together. Does the badge fit in the nest properly?

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Yankee]

Dear Yankee:

Thank you for the scans of your wonderful Knight 2nd Class badge. It is definately a German-made piece in my opinion. It is of superb quality. The ribbon is a typical Saxon-style tri-fold (also the ONLY way that Austrians wore their awards). The Saxons often utilized this style of wear, but not always. The ribbon of course is an old silk original. A perfect piece!

The case looks Austrian to me, but for which award and which manufacturer, is anyone's guess. I do not believe that they really go together. Does the badge fit in the nest properly?

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hi Schie

Many many thanks pointing to country of origin, with that case it threw me a loop. I noticed the Bavarians too like having trifold ribbons perhaps copying the Austrian style but it was not consistent. I guess it was up to the individual wearer how he choose his style of ribbon mounting. Actually the order fits rather well inside, ribbon does reach the edge ( if I extend it ) I have two other Rothe cases also with gold emboss crowns, that are foreign awards but the inside lids are marked Rothe. Perhaps Rothe just supplied the cases to the German manufacturer that is why they are not marked. I've noticed the early made knight badges have a wide arm and the gold sometimes is red/brown tint. Perhaps different gold standards back then. Should any of the 1st model or 2nd model gold badges be hallmarked? I know with the Kingdoms generally are but many of the Duchies don't seem to mark their orders in any way. Thanks for all your help.

Sincerely

Yankee

[Yankee]

Wow, I really like how this thread has expanded, although it makes my initial thoughts seem pedestrain. Basically, I initiated this thread to ask for comment on the SEHOs on the eMedals site in terms of quality of manufacture, period of manufacture, and suitability of price. I'm not certain the last question is appropriate in this forum, so please strike if not. I am of the mind to acquire one so comments are appreciated.

Rod, great piece! Schie, yes, 10 and 4, thanks. Keep Posting

Hi Michael

We did get a bit off topic, try to correct it. The two gold Seho's that emedals has seem nice, they are 2nd model, knight 1st class. If a choice always buy the one in better condition. Normally ones with swords are more sought after except Bavaria MVO. Purchase a Jorg Nimmergut price guide book, to get a ball park figure. Better to get a 2nd opinion, no expert on the Saxon Duchies. Good luck

Sincerely

Yankee

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hi Schie

Many many thanks pointing to country of origin, with that case it threw me a loop. I noticed the Bavarians too like having trifold ribbons perhaps copying the Austrian style but it was not consistent. I guess it was up to the individual wearer how he choose his style of ribbon mounting. Actually the order fits rather well inside, ribbon does reach the edge ( if I extend it ) I have two other Rothe cases also with gold emboss crowns, that are foreign awards but the inside lids are marked Rothe. Perhaps Rothe just supplied the cases to the German manufacturer that is why they are not marked. I've noticed the early made knight badges have a wide arm and the gold sometimes is red/brown tint. Perhaps different gold standards back then. Should any of the 1st model or 2nd model gold badges be hallmarked? I know with the Kingdoms generally are but many of the Duchies don't seem to mark their orders in any way. Thanks for all your help.

Sincerely

Yankee

Dear Yankee:

Remember too, that in W?rttemberg the custom of wearing triangular ribbons was popular too. So, basically the Austrian-style was at times popular in the southern German States.

You are right about the red-tint gold. The earlier badges were of higher content gold alloy. Usually, at least 750 gold (750/1000 or 75% if you will). The red colour was made by alloying copper with the gold resulting in a reddish/pink color. This is commonly known as "rose gold". Order jewelers sometimes used yellow gold and rose gold for different parts of the same order badge to provide a beautiful contrast.

Hallmarks on any SEHO badges are unusual in my experience (however limited). Rod's Knight 2nd w/ swords is the only piece that I have record of being marked. I own a gold Commander's grade badge from the mid-19th century and it has no markings, and my Knight 1st in gold from the late 19th century has no markings either. Of course, most stars (jewels) were marked. Good deduction on your part regarding markings on badges. The official Order Jewelers for Prussian, Bavarian, and Saxon Orders at least usually marked their pieces, whereas the smaller States did not as often.

I have never owned or held for inspection any 1st type gold badges, but I do not recall ever seeing markings listed when these pieces come up for auction.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Yankee]

Dear Yankee:

Remember too, that in W?rttemberg the custom of wearing triangular ribbons was popular too. So, basically the Austrian-style was at times popular in the southern German States.

You are right about the red-tint gold. The earlier badges were of higher content gold alloy. Usually, at least 750 gold (750/1000 or 75% if you will). The red colour was made by alloying copper with the gold resulting in a reddish/pink color. This is commonly known as "rose gold". Order jewelers sometimes used yellow gold and rose gold for different parts of the same order badge to provide a beautiful contrast.

Hallmarks on any SEHO badges are unusual in my experience (however limited). Rod's Knight 2nd w/ swords is the only piece that I have record of being marked. I own a gold Commander's grade badge from the mid-19th century and it has no markings, and my Knight 1st in gold from the late 19th century has no markings either. Of course, most stars (jewels) were marked. Good deduction on your part regarding markings on badges. The official Order Jewelers for Prussian, Bavarian, and Saxon Orders at least usually marked their pieces, whereas the smaller States did not as often.

I have never owned or held for inspection any 1st type gold badges, but I do not recall ever seeing markings listed when these pieces come up for auction.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hi Schie

I have noticed on some of the German State Orders more then one color gold being applied to the badges. I was never sure it was done on purpose but as you say it sure makes a "beautiful contrast" so now I know never an accident. A fantastic example is the Oldenburg House Order Peter Friedrich Louis where the cross is one color and the crown another. Many examples too are the swords. I think Russia was the largest user of pink gold, nearly all their older orders have that and it is a marvel to see. I will scan an old picture of a early SEHO Knight that was at auction. I make big mistake not trying to bid on it as you can see it is a beautiful example in that dark red color. Thanks a bunch for your insight on the gold content.

Sincerely

Yankee

[Yankee]