British Edwardian & Earlier Helmets

[Michael NA]

In looking at Stuart's collection, it seems to me that it might be useful to have a discussion on early British helmets. Although I have yet to jump into another area of collecting, I do collect cdvs and cabinet cards and have always thought about having one or two examples to compliment these images. Problem is, that they seem to be higher priced items and short of buying from a UK auction house, the only other source is one of the online auction sites. However, on these sites you can never be sure if you are buying an old badge on a new helmet or one of the many reproduction helmets.

It would also be interesting to match up these helmets with period images although I appreciate that anything earlier than the late 1850's would be difficult.

To, hopefully, start the ball rolling, the following is a being sold as a Pattern 1871 Other Ranks helmet of the 1st (Royals) Dragoons, a heavy cavalry regiment. It is ebay item 260101607574. Can anyone confirm details and what might be a reasonable price range for a helmet like this. Seems to be in very good condition.

Thank you.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Michael NA

[Michael NA]

Also, as it would be easier for me (and perhaps others) to research British Regular Army, my main focus would be on Regular Army vs militia.

Thank you in advance for any comments.

Michael

[Stuart Bates]

Michael,

as a start I would ask for a shot of the interior, side and top of the helmet. The first would establish the quality and correctness of the headlining, the others the correctness of the ear bosses and the plume rosette.

The chinchain worries me because it is described as graduated which was for the Household Cavalry only. Dragoon Guards and Dragoons had a 3/4" wide chinchain until about 1900 when the width was increased to 1".

I would also query the background of the regimental number within the garter as it should be black leather or black japanned metal.

Stuart

Edited March 29, 2007 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

I meant to add that, all being well, I wouldn't pay much more than ?1000 for such a helmet in good condition.

Stuart

[Michael NA]

Thank you Stuart. There is a book that I see from time to time: Head Dress of the British Heavy Cavalry by David JJ Rowe. Is this worth the price or are there better references.

Michael

[Stuart Bates]

Rowe's book is a must. It's the only one I know of that deals exclusively and extensively with British Heavy Cavalry helmets.

Stuart

[Michael NA]

Thank you Stuart. More economical to start with the book. Here is an example to the 3rd Dragoons that is described as being a P1881. Shows the interior as well as the side. Should the "ear bosses" be closer to the facing of the helmet? This example shows the black background missing from the earlier example:

Michael

[Michael NA]

Here is the interior:

[Stuart Bates]

Well Michael this is just about the worst example of this style of helmet I have seen. You are right about the ear bosses they are not correct for the 3rd Dragoon Guards. The plume should be black over red, trumpeters wore white until c1902 when they changed to yellow.

The chinchain is in terrible condition as is the interior. The skull would possibly polish up OK, although the rear brim looks a little rough, but I wouldn't touch this one unless it were given to me.

I don't know off-hand how it can be described as post 1881 or what that actually means. It is the 1871+ pattern.

Stuart

Edited March 30, 2007 by Stuart Bates

[Michael NA]

Stuart:

Do you find that a particular type of head dress suffers more or less from tampering or "additions".

Michael

[Stuart Bates]

Not really Michael. Although if pressed I would say cavalry helmets quite often have the wrong plume ie colour or an officer's helmet with a OR's plume and vice versa. The ones in really bad condition would bear very close inspection as you have noted with the ear bosses on the 3rd DGs. But, I guess, one wouldn't or shouldn't buy items in really bad condition.

Badges or helmet plates are always a possible area of concern but, for example, just because a helmet plate to a Home Service Helmet has been changed doesn't mean that it is not genuine. Soldiers often transferred from one regiment to another necessitating a change of plate.

One thing to be careful of if you ever look at Foreign Service helmets is that there must be some form of ventilation between the headband and the shell of the helmet. This normally takes the form of rubber or cork spacers, normally 8 in number, or some form of corrugated material, leather or cardboard. The absence of this indicates a repro/theatrical prop.

This is what I mean -

Stuart

Edited March 31, 2007 by Stuart Bates

[Michael NA]

Stuart, thank you for the comments. I do see the pith style helmets from time to time and will watch for the rubber or cork spacers.

Michael

[Michael NA]

What do you make of this one.

Seller's description: "A very scarce Georgian Blandford volunteer cavalry Roman type helmet, this was a troop of the Dorset Yeomanry, this helmet was based on the 1822 cavalry helmet but with a comb similar to the 1912 pattern. The helmet has probably had the scull and sweat band replaced, But as far as I can tell all other parts are original. A nice helmet that displays well in a good restored condition."

Michael

Edited April 1, 2007 by Michael NA

[Stuart Bates]

Michael,

I have no information on the Dorset Yeomanry so can't really comment on that aspect of the helmet. It follows the 1822 pattern heavy cavalry helmet, that one had a black comb, and the comb does look similar to the 1812 pattern heavies. I guess I would ask for a closeup of the badge and trace it from there. However, the seller states that the skull has been replaced now what does this mean? If the skull has been replaced what does this make the helmet? A spare parts one.

If this is true I would leave it alone, otherwise I would research the Dorset Yeomanry.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

Michael,

here is a story that might be of interest. I was alerted to a Royal Artillery Home Service helmet with QVC and accompanying storage/transit tin. The tin had the owner's name and unit on the brass nameplate but not decipherable from the photo although the seller did give the unit as Hants & Isle of Wight Artillery. I asked for the owner's name and he replied K.H.Devitt.

Now one of the photos showed a paper label under the headband inscribed Lord Headfo?t and 3rd R. ?o???. I found Headfort G.T., Marq. in the Army List of 1898 as a Lt in the 3rd Battalion Royal Scots. Googling on Headfort gave me Geoffrey Thomas Taylour, the 4th Marquess of Headfort, and the 1900 Army List and London Gazette told me that he had transferred to the 1st Life Guards on 7th March 1900.

Now I found Kenneth Hayward Devitt in the 1901 Army List commissioned as 2nd Lt 19th July 1900 into the Duke of Connaught's Own Hampshire and Isle of Wight Artillery (RGA) and in the Army List of 1902 as 2nd Lt in the RFA.

Now it is entirely possible that K.H.Nevitt somehow bought Lord Headfort's Royal Scots HSH and converted it to Artillery as the seller discovered that the badge had indeed been changed with two extra holes clearly visible on close inspection.

The upshot is that the seller is changing the description and the buyer may even get a better helmet than originally described.

Stuart

PS. Here is the link http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=290106145230

Edited April 20, 2007 by Stuart Bates

[Michael NA]

Stuart:

Good piece of detective work.

I have been watching prices of the various examples of helmets. Quite a price range. Lots of post-1900 examples and I see that there are 3/4 or 1/2 size examples presumably made for collectors although one description indicated it was a retirement award to an officer.

Michael

[Stuart Bates]

Michael,

yes I've seen photos of these. I think they actually made them for children (rich ones) and drummer boys would have to have been accommodated.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

I should add that there was a substantial market in second hand officers' equipment as not all young officers were that well off to enable them to purchase new.

Stuart