The Royal Northumberland Fusiliers - (***MODERATORS' CHOICE)

[Graham Stewart]

Here we get a better view of the Crown, but again an interesting feature is the fact this pattern of No.1 Dress 'blues' has unusually a pointed cuff, which is only normally found on officers pattern No.1 Dress 'blues'.

[Graham Stewart]

Again a shot of the bi-metal R.N.F. collar badges, which have been re-worked to accommodate a single blade fixing for No.1 Dress jackets.

Another unusual fearture of this jacket is the 'hook & eye' fixing of the collar. Normally the collar has hooks on one side and eyes on the other, however on this jacket there is one of each on opposing sides of the collar, so that they would have to be closed 'diagonally' - very unusual and probably fidily.

All in all a lovely jacket and a welcome addition to the collection.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

An very early colour photo of C/Sgt Gould in No.1 Dress 'blues', as a member of the 'Colour Party', 6th(City)Bn, R.N.F.. What can be clearly seen is the arrangement of his insignia - stripes, crown(with 'gosling green' backing) and 'Tanky' arm badge above.

By this time William was probably one of the few former members of 43rd R.T.R., still left within the 6th(City)Bn, as photo's taken during this period show few of it's members wearing the Tank arm badge.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

From the same parade, with William wearing his T.E.M. and a 'white & white rose' in his breast pocket indicating it was a St. Georges Day Parade.

Also being carried, possibly for the first time on parade, is the semi-automatic 7.62mm Self Loading Rifle. Prior to this occassion, the rifle of choice for Parades was 303in Lee Enfield Mk.IV.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

Colour Sgt, William Gould, 6th(City)Bn, R.N.F.(T.A.) being presented with his Territorial Efficiency Medal, 1963, displaying his rank insignia. William probably originally enlisted into the 43rd R.T.R.(T.A.) prior to it's conversion to infantry as a Trooper c.1951.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

The metal studs are almost certainly to hold a white linen collar worn inside the neck. The collar is just a straight strip of white linen, no points. It shows about half an inch of white above the tunic collar. We had a similar arrangement with our Naval Academy Full Dress, and surprisingly, it wasn't particularly uncomfortable.

First decent photo that I've been able to confirm what Hugh said about the 'white linen collar, worn inside the neck'. Here we have Lt-Col A.B. Wood, T.D., 6th(City)Bn, R.N.F.(T.A.), wearing his No.1 Dress 'blues' in April 1959 and we can just the the linen collar appearing above the jacket collar.

[Graham Stewart]

Finally we have CSM William Gould's second Battle Dress blouse, which of the two had, had it's RNF shoulder titles, 50th Div badges and anodised CSM rank badges removed. All have had to be replaced to end up with the complete uniform, which now compliments the one shown earlier.

[Graham Stewart]

This is how the right arm looked prior to restoration, with the 50th Div cloth badges roughly cut from it. This meant trawling through a well known auction website until a suitable pair of cloth 50th Div badges could be found to be resewn to the blouse once the remnants of the old badges were removed.

Luckily I had plenty of spare shoulder titles so they were easy to replace.

[Graham Stewart]

This how the right arm looks now with all the correct insignia now in place. The original 50th Div cloth badges had infact been sewn on by machine and as I don't have one it had to be done by ones own fair hand, something which I hadn't done since my Navy day's.

[Graham Stewart]

Earlier I had mentioned the fact, that the original 43rd R.T.R. slip-on flashes had been crudely sewn to the shoulder straps on both BD blouses, as seen here. This was a surprise, as I thought that these slip-on flashes had come sewn together to just slip over the shoulder strap, so one wonders if the coloured strip which made up the flash was in short supply??

[Graham Stewart]

The first BD blouse clearly had the gm 'Tanky' badge fitted to the right arm just below the 50th Div cloth badge and so I was able to attach a new one. With this second BD bouse I noticed that the cloth 'TANKY' badge had been crudely sewn to the right arm, but on looking further I found two holes that indicated that at one time the gm 'Tanky' had also been worn with this blouse too. Obviously with the cloth badge being a later addition, I think of the two BD blouses this was probably Williams 'working' dress BD blouse i.e. being worn every time he attended the T.A.

[Graham Stewart]

Of all the badges which proved to be the most difficult to find, it turned out to be the CSM rank crown's for the lower arms and so I've just borrowed them from the first BD blouse to enable me to get this onto the GMIC Forum.

Recently I went to two surplus stores in town to try and possibly purchase a pair, but I didn't realise how illusive these had become. One of the stores is run by a former T.A. Staff Sgt who looked at one of the original crowns and he remembered that on the demise of BD, rank crowns of that size for the CSM began to appear in cloth only for No.2 Dress and the 58(?) Pattern Combat clothing which had been introduced to replace BD.

Anyway I'm really pleased to now have these uniforms in my collection and it's been a pleasure to show them in memory of CSM William Gould, who appears to have been an outstanding T.A. soldier of both the Royal Tank Regt and Royal Northumberland Fusiliers and also on behalf of his son Paul and family, who remember him with great fondness.

[Donald]

I enjoy this growing thread concerning the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers and would like to learn regimental details of the service medal with single bar photographed by T. Winter, Murree & Pindee.

[Graham Stewart]

I enjoy this growing thread concerning the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers and would like to learn regimental details of the service medal with single bar photographed by T. Winter, Murree & Pindee.

Now that is a beauty and he's obviously wearing the Indian General Service Medal, but what the clasp will be is more difficult to determine. However there are some points about the uniform which may help in determining a date.

Firstly we have the collar badges - plain gm 'bombs', which pre-date the regimental pattern collar so often seen in photo's taken later. Also note the white facings of the collar, first introduced universally for non-Royal Regiments in 1881, replacing the traditional 'gosling green' facings which were restored in the early 1900's

The jacket appears to be the 'Indian' pattern 'frock' and I base this on the fact that there is no white piping around the edge of the shoulder strap - in otherwords it's his everyday clothing and not his best pattern jacket, which would be the 'review' pattern.

Considering there's only the one IGSM and no medals from the Boer War(1899-1903), you're probably looking at a 'campaign' pre-dating 1899. However I don't have all of my notes here with me, but do know that one clasp they did receive for the IGSM was 'Hazara 1888', which was awarded to the 2nd Battalion. This Battalion campaigned again in 1891 in a follow-up military expedition to the same region of India and again received the IGSM with clasp 'Hazara 1891', which I firmly believe is what he is wearing, based mainly on his young age.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[Donald]

I look forward to your thoughts about this pair of photos taken in Peshawar, Graham. Keeping a spare magazine load of easily accessible Lee Metford or Lee Enfield cartridges with you at all times seems a fine idea. Somewhat like the picture to the left of myself in Vietnam 1969-70.

[Graham Stewart]

I look forward to your thoughts about this pair of photos taken in Peshawar, Graham. Keeping a spare magazine load of easily accessible Lee Metford or Lee Enfield cartridges with you at all times seems a fine idea. Somewhat like the picture to the left of myself in Vietnam 1969-70.

Another couple of beauties and ironically wearing the same pattern Service Dress jackets as seen in Post #265, which makes them very interesting indeed, as it appears that the 2nd Battalion, to whom these probably belong, were all clothed in the same pattern jacket, with the cartridge loops above the breast pockets for Lee Metford cartridges. Sadly I don't know a great deal about early Indian pattern SD uniforms in and it has me wondering if all British units wore the same pattern jacket or not or were additional alterations made at Battalion level, i.e. the cartridge loops? The jackets themselves are more popularly known as 'KD - Khaki Drill' due to their lightwieght material, which wasn't as heavy as the woollen serge used in Service Dress at home stations.

The lad on our left is actually one of the Battalion Pioneers - see the crossed axes, with small grenade above, in red worsted on a white back ground and not fully sewn to the jacket. Usually a small press studd was used to allow for removal, when having them washed by the "dhobi wallah", who did them by hand. The Battalion Pioneers, were infact quite skilled and required to do a lot of work both in and out of the field. On his lower left cuff is a single Good Conduct Badge. The purpose of which really was to show a man of good character and also earned a bit of extra money for those awarded such, in the way of Good Conduct Pay.

Lad on the right is obviously unrelated(note hair style), but is the wearer of two Good Conduct Badges on his lower left cuff, above which is the crossed rifles, which is in white worsted cotton on a red back ground. Both have the 'white' foreign service helmet, (your best helmet for parade, hence spiked) with the definative red 'V' flash above the lower white pagri. Again the flash during the 1880's, appears to have been larger in depth than that worn post 1900.

All in all Donald three cracking photos and a nice one of yourself - noted the Carbine and not the standard M16.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[alric]

Hi Graham

Perhaps a forerunner of your NER training booklet, this one runs to 16 pages and includes some interesting photographs of training in 1915.

Thanks to you and Leigh for making this such an interesting thread on everything Royal Northumberland Fusiliers

VBR Ashantee

Hello Everyone - new to this. I'm writing a book about my grandfather who served with the 6th Bn and 13th Bn during the Great War. He won the MM & Bar and was nominated for the DCM but no-one knows exactly what he did, and many of the records in the National Archives were destroyed during the Blitz. Ashanti..that Appeal for Recruit booklet with photos of their training in. Could you post/send me copies of these that I could use please? With full acknowledgment of course. As I said I'm a bit of a dinosaur with this sort of thing, but if anyone out there interested in the NF would be happy for me to pick their brains, then please email me directly: alric@blueyonder.co.uk

Thanks

[Mervyn Mitton]

Since 2008 - 30,508 views and 20 pages. I would like to pay my respects to all of the Members - particularly Graham Stewart -

who have shown such enthusiasm for the Regiment - and knowledge that would be difficult to find elsewhere.

Keep it up everyone - this is the sort of post that keeps GMIC at the top of the Forums. Mervyn

[Graham Stewart]

Hello Everyone - new to this. I'm writing a book about my grandfather who served with the 6th Bn and 13th Bn during the Great War. He won the MM & Bar and was nominated for the DCM but no-one knows exactly what he did, and many of the records in the National Archives were destroyed during the Blitz. Ashanti..that Appeal for Recruit booklet with photos of their training in. Could you post/send me copies of these that I could use please? With full acknowledgment of course. As I said I'm a bit of a dinosaur with this sort of thing, but if anyone out there interested in the NF would be happy for me to pick their brains, then please email me directly: alric@blueyonder.co.uk

Thanks

If you post his name I'll check to see what I have on my Database. The Recruiting Booklet mentioned by Ashantee, is actually for the 17th Bn, N.F., and bares no relation to either the 6th or 13th Bns. Sadly neither of these Battalions produced Battalion Histories.

Sorted - 6/4214 Pte George Matthew Richardson - resident of Ashington, Northumberland. Enlisted into the 6th Bn, 29th June 1915. Was "Sick to Hospital" 15th December 1915 and known to have been wounded on the 25th & 26th May 1916 - probably the reason why he was transferred to the 13th Bn on recovery.

Further to my last - On his transfer to the 13th Bn he was renumbered '37829' and recorded as wounded again in May 1918.

Merv - Many thanks for your kind words and I'll try and keep the interest going on the RNF.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[jaycam]

Hello, I'm very new to this so please be patient!

I'm trying to find information to try to clarify a point. One of my family John Godfrey, was killed in WW1. The records on Ancestry show him to have been in the 23rd Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers, regt. no 45755. He enlisted at Sacriston and was living at High Melsonby at that time. Records show him to have been killed 20/3/1918.

We have been checking the War Memorials, and have found one entry for a John Godfrey, this being on Witton Gilbert WM, but this John Godfrey is shown to have been in the DLI. Having chased up the DLI records, the John Godfrey they have is shown as enlisted at Newcastle and lived at Seaham Harbour, but they have no information why he would be on the Witton Gilbert memorial.

We are quite confused, as John's brother Ernest was in the DLI.

Could anyone suggest where we might be able to check things further, please?

With many thanks

Jo

[Graham Stewart]

Hello, I'm very new to this so please be patient!

I'm trying to find information to try to clarify a point. One of my family John Godfrey, was killed in WW1. The records on Ancestry show him to have been in the 23rd Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers, regt. no 45755. He enlisted at Sacriston and was living at High Melsonby at that time. Records show him to have been killed 20/3/1918.

We have been checking the War Memorials, and have found one entry for a John Godfrey, this being on Witton Gilbert WM, but this John Godfrey is shown to have been in the DLI. Having chased up the DLI records, the John Godfrey they have is shown as enlisted at Newcastle and lived at Seaham Harbour, but they have no information why he would be on the Witton Gilbert memorial.

We are quite confused, as John's brother Ernest was in the DLI.

Could anyone suggest where we might be able to check things further, please?

With many thanks

Jo

Not an easy one really but this is what I do have on John Godfrey;-

45755 Pte John Godfrey, 22nd(Service)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(3rd Tyneside Scottish) - born Stapleton, Yorks & enlisted Sacriston, C. Durham. Also served with 13th(Service)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers - 12/13th(Service)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers. Promoted L/Cpl & Died 20/3/1918(Originally posted as M.I.A. 21/3/1918), while serving with 'B' Company, 23rd(Service)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(4th Tyneside Scottish) & commemorated on Arras Memorial.

I would have thought he would have been on Sacristons R.O.H., but you'll have to delve further as in some cases, where you have a person living, but not native to a certain area, that person can be found on a Memorial from where he possibly originated. So you have to ask were John's parents living in Sacriston or were they still living in or around Stapleton, Yorks, where he was born?

Many people who resided in the North East from 1900-1914 were migrant workers from other parts of the country, coming to work in the colleries of Northumberland & Durham and many were lodging with mining families. A check of the 1911 Census Record may actually show where he was living at the time. Also you have the possibility of if living in the area with his parents - did they want him on the Memorial, as I believe a lot were funded through public subscription which was 'voluntary'.

Apologies for not being more specific, but I did have a look at the North East War Memorial Project and he's certainly not to be found on a North East Memorial.

[jaycam]

Many thanks for the information Graham. I'll follow up the points you mention to see if things become clearer. I have found another John Godfrey on the Murton War Memorial, and he is shown as the DLI, the same details as the Witton Gilbert memorial. We do know that our John's grandparents lived at Witton Gilbert, which adds to our confusion. Is it possible, do you think, that the regimental details could be incorrect on the Witton Gilbert memorial information?. I don't think the regiment is actually shown on the memorial itself, but was picked up from an internet source. I'll ask my cousin where it came from.

[Graham Stewart]

Many thanks for the information Graham. I'll follow up the points you mention to see if things become clearer. I have found another John Godfrey on the Murton War Memorial, and he is shown as the DLI, the same details as the Witton Gilbert memorial. We do know that our John's grandparents lived at Witton Gilbert, which adds to our confusion. Is it possible, do you think, that the regimental details could be incorrect on the Witton Gilbert memorial information?. I don't think the regiment is actually shown on the memorial itself, but was picked up from an internet source. I'll ask my cousin where it came from.

It is quite possible after having a look at the North Eastern Memorial Project that there could indeed be a mix-up in the Regimental details on one of the Memorials. The other John Godfrey, was 32801 Pte John Godfrey who was killed with the 15th Bn, Durham L.I. on 15th aPRIL 1915. The problem lies with trying to determine which John Godfrey lived where, as there are no family details on either of their CWGC burial details - had there been so, we'd have been able to work it out.

I'll take another look at other sources to see if I can narrow it down.

[Graham Stewart]

I've had a look at this Church Memorial and considering the families connection with Witton Gilbert, believe that this may be him(scroll down to view), even no unit is named;-

http://www.newmp.org...?contentId=9195

The other John Godfrey, who was 15th, DLI had connections with Newcastle & Seaham Harbour, so wouldn't have expected to find him on the Witton Gilbert Memorial and so the Memorial Cross at Witton Gilbert may have the wrong details. Now the only way you may be able to get around this is to try and see if the Church Memorial has a more detailed document, which they used prior to erecting the Memorial.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Graham Stewart

[jaycam]

With many thanks for your help, Graham.

I'm trying to contact the Witton Gilbert parish council to ask if there had been a Memorial committee at the time, and if so, where might the record books for the committee be stored. I'll put a posting up later, when I get a reply.