CMP Cap/Collar/Shoulder badges

[Gordon Williamson]

Rediscovered the other day in the attic, a project that didn't quite get finished. Still one or two missing though most are there. Represented are RMP, CMP, MPSC, Royal Marines Police, Gurkha Military Police and Indian Military Police.

Still looking for an MMP shoulder title if anyone hears of one for sale. Did have one but lost the damn thing.

[leigh kitchen]

Have you got any cloth CMP insignia?

The only CMP items that I have are the odd cap badge & shoulder title & a s,mall grouping which includes a pair of printed & a pair of embroidered "VP" lozenges - "worn by CMP guarding "Vital Points".

They wore blue cap covers & so were known as "Blue Caps" ratyher than "Red Caps".

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Leigh,

I only have the RMP and CMP cloth shoulder titles on red. Haven't been able to get hold of the wartime slide embroidered on Khaki yet.

Picked up a few of the Commonwealth and ex-Commonwealth cap and shoulder titles too, Canadian, New Zealand, Australia etc, even Zimbabwe !

Don't think I've seen the VP patches. I don't think they had any special cap badge did they ? Just the blue cover. I believe the Greencaps did have a cap badge though. Like the CMP but without the named scroll at the base ? I did have copies of the pages from Kipling / King on the badges that particularly interest me (Mil Police and Black Watch) but long since lost them and with the price of K&K volumes these days I can't see my buying them just for a handful of pages that interest me !

[leigh kitchen]

Blue Caps wore the normal pattern badge with wreath & scroll, Green Caps I don't know - the crowned cypher in wreath without scroll & later pattern badges of just crown & cypher were worn by the Provost?

I picked up a Rhodesian UDI or Zimbabwean badge in brass some years ago.

I can't scan anything from K & K or any badges etc at the mpoment as I've just got a new hard drive & can't find various software.......

[leigh kitchen]

Green caps cap badges - worked it out - Field Security Police was raised as part of the Military Police -"Intelligence Police", wearing the CMP cap badge but with the shoulder ttle "FSP".

FSP wore green cap covers, inspired by the WWI Intelligence Corps officer's green cap band & collar tabs.

The CMP cap badge was adated by FSP by having the scroll filed down but not removed.

Misused in the field during WWII as their "police" title led to them beng used for other than Field Security purposes, the FSP title was changed to "Field Security Personnel", & in 1940 they became part of the newly formed Intelligence Corps.

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Leigh,

I do actually have a GVIR badge somewhere that I didn't add to my board. The scroll had been removed and I was told this was FSP, but couldn't find any written confirmation of this so tucked it away for future research.

Did you find something written down about this then ?

Since got the MMP title but will have to find an FSP one now !

I also had one, may still be around somewhere, that was silvered. No way of knowing when it was done so not sure if its messed with. I'm not sure if GVIR silvered RMP officer badges may have been made in the period between the "Royal" addition to the title, the introduction of Officers to the Corps and the introduction of the EIIR officers badge.

[leigh kitchen]

I remembered that I'd seen some illustration of "FSP" insignia in an old edition of "Crown Imperal" (No. 79, Summer 1995), I found the magazine & that's where the info comes from.

Edited May 7, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[Gordon Williamson]

Still haven't been able to find the badge itself, but found a photo of it. I got it for peanuts as it had been over-cleaned and of course there was no way of knowing when it had been modified.

Could my mystery badge actually be FSP related

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=43214

Must try to find it now that I know there is at least something in writing refering to its existence.

[leigh kitchen]

The FSP shoulder title was theatre made according to the Crown Imperial article.

I'm confusing muyself now, as I posted that the RMP scroll was filed down by FSP but not removed, looking at the artcle it illustrates the RMP badge & states "The Field Security Police would have worn this badge but have removed the Miltary Police inscription......green cap covers.......The Field Security Police were later badged under the newly established Intelligence Corps".

[Gordon Williamson]

Interesting. Over on the British & Commonwealth Badge Forum, one guy has a badge with only the central part of the scroll removed ( the "swallow-tail" ends still intact)and another guy mentioned seeing one with the scroll all intact but with the lettering ground off.

Perhaps all the variatrions are down to any orders relating to the aletrations being somewhat ambiguous and open to interpretation.

[leigh kitchen]

For some reason I'd been thinking that the scroll was retained but the lettering rubbed down - I must have read it somewhere, some time, but given that FSP were operating in small detachments & were in a way "nobody's children" it seems lkely that, as you say, they would improvise on the RMP cap badge in different ways?

Edited May 7, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[Mervyn Mitton]

Gordon - I couldn't find your original post on Sth. African Military Police. Have just bought cap and collars for the SACMP (S.A.Corps of Mil.Pol.) These voided ones were WW2 issue and were only used 1940-1945. All were lightly gilded - the one thet looks silver, does in fact have some gilding remaining.

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Mervyn,

Very nice ! The examples I have picked up are all the solid unvoided type.

[paulbear]

of interest the CMP title was adopted by CANADIAN MILITARY POLICE during WW1

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Paul,

Yes, there are reputedly two types, one with "fatter" letters being the British type and one with thinner letters being the Canadian version. I have both types but am not really convinced they are anything other than just manufacturer variants.

Having said that, all of the examples with the "fat" letters I have were picked up here in the UK and the one with the thin letters is one I got from Canada.

[paulbear]

Hi Paul,

Yes, there are reputedly two types, one with "fatter" letters being the British type and one with thinner letters being the Canadian version. I have both types but am not really convinced they are anything other than just manufacturer variants.

Having said that, all of the examples with the "fat" letters I have were picked up here in the UK and the one with the thin letters is one I got from Canada.

As the CANADIAN troops where in England for some time during that period many badges where in fact made there by BRITISH firms so ref your thoughts any type can be CANADIAN .see the variations from my collection

PAUL

[Gordon Williamson]

As the CANADIAN troops where in England for some time during that period many badges where in fact made there by BRITISH firms so ref your thoughts any type can be CANADIAN .see the variations from my collection

PAUL

The CMPC is very nice ! Haven't managed to pick one of those up yet.

[paulbear]

VERY RARE only one I have ever seen in all the years

PAUL

[Gordon Williamson]

Just about to remount all the MP badges. Posting here to see if anyone can confirm any other missing pieces I still need to get.

First British. Still need the silver plated GVIR Officer Cap Badge - have the Collar Dog on hand. Also still need the WW2 Period shoulder title black embroidered on brown slip on.

[Gordon Williamson]

MPSC. Seems to be very little info around on this organisation. Not sure if the GVR collars really are MPSC.

Know I need EVIIR Cap Badge and the MPSC Brass Shoulder Title but not sure what else is possible to get for this mob.

[paulbear]

I have a drawer full of British stuff over here and will look to see if there is anything you might need Nice collection

PAUL

[Gordon Williamson]

Both the Canada Maple Leaf and the British Pattern Badge were used by Canadian CEF MPs I believe. I have the 1 Det. Badge but there are two others from the period , for one I have the Collar Dog shown here and have the full size Badge on hold with a Canadian dealer. The remaining WW1 type I have the Collar Dog coming but still need the full size Badge.

Otherwise I know I need the "CMPC" and Garrison Military Police "GMP" shoulder titles but think just about everything else is here.

For New Zealand I need

1.EIIR badge in Brass

2.Current Chrome/Blue badge.

For Australia I don't think there are any other Badges, but still need

1. Cloth embroidered title "Royal Australian Army Provost Corps"

2. Cloth embroidered title "Royal Australian Corps of Military Police" with black border

3. 1960s "Provost" anodised shoulder title

4. WW1 Australian Provost Corps" Brass Shoulder Title

5. WW1 "Anzac Provost Corps" Brass Shoulder Title

[Gordon Williamson]

Africa / India

Think I have all the badges worn by the SACMP but I'm aware there are several variants of the now defunct Chrome Badge with unit emblems in the middle. Not sure how many exist.

For Rhodesia I need the SRCMP Cap Badge and Shoulder Title

For India there is a "IMP" title missing, but not sure how many other Badges exist.

I'd be grateful if anyone can identify any others I am still missing and need to look for.

[paulbear]

HERE is what CANADA wore. Note the centre badge no known collars

Edited November 25, 2010 by paulbear

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Paul,

Awesome set ! I just bought the GVR version in your photo at top right and already have the Collar Dog. I still need the one with the CMP cypher in the centre but have found what appears to be a Collar Dog for this type.

The shoulder title for ! Det is a new one on me. Didn't know about that one so I'll have to add it to my list of things to find.