SMLE Riot Shotgun?

[thursday chris]

Hello All,

I'm a newbie to the forum,and I have been reading with great interest all the previous posts about the SMLE Mk III. I'm hoping

that you chaps will be able to tell me a little about a SMLE that I've had as a companion to a Mauser Gewehr 98 for quite some years.

I'm hoping that Santa will bring me a suitable camera,but in the meantime I'll have to describe it.It is,I think,an all original SMLE Mk III made by the LSA Co in 1911,all the numbers match apart from the bolt which is,I guess, a later replacement with the slab type cocking piece.There are very neatly fitted wooden inserts where the volley sight would have been fitted,and when I first acquired the rifle the magazine cutoff was held in position by a couple of tack welds,since removed,and magazine refitted, the barrel band is stamped RFI 410 1941.

I believe,that numbers of old SMLEs were converted at Ishapore for use as riot shotguns during WW11,and I'm wondering whether many of them have survived.

Chris.

[xxx]

Hello All,

I'm a newbie to the forum,and I have been reading with great interest all the previous posts about the SMLE Mk III. I'm hoping

that you chaps will be able to tell me a little about a SMLE that I've had as a companion to a Mauser Gewehr 98 for quite some years.

I'm hoping that Santa will bring me a suitable camera,but in the meantime I'll have to describe it.It is,I think,an all original SMLE Mk III made by the LSA Co in 1911,all the numbers match apart from the bolt which is,I guess, a later replacement with the slab type cocking piece.There are very neatly fitted wooden inserts where the volley sight would have been fitted,and when I first acquired the rifle the magazine cutoff was held in position by a couple of tack welds,since removed,and magazine refitted, the barrel band is stamped RFI 410 1941.

I believe,that numbers of old SMLEs were converted at Ishapore for use as riot shotguns during WW11,and I'm wondering whether many of them have survived.

Chris.

they are, of course, making in india

a chamber cast and sluging the barrel with a lead ball is a must to see if it is the original ( I believe from here) .410 india

some lee enfields are bored smoth to go with british gun law

[thursday chris]

they are, of course, making in india

a chamber cast and sluging the barrel with a lead ball is a must to see if it is the original ( I believe from here) .410 india

some lee enfields are bored smoth to go with british gun law

Hello,I'm afraid that my query about the riot shotgun aspect of this SMLE was a bit misleading,I have taken it down off the wall for the first time in years and reminded myself what marks are on it,and where these marks are.It is a deactivated piece by the way,this, of course,is the only legal way that such things can be openly displayed in the UK.

I'm wondering if the marks that are on this rifle can tell me a little about its possible history,the "been there"factor may well add greatly to its appeal.Apart from the bolt it does seem to be all original,the buttstock socket markings are crown/GR and LSA CO LD 1911.The serial number on the right side of the receiver is 3460 with no letter prefix,this number is repeated on the bayonet stud of the nosecap and the underside of the rear sight leaf.This does seem quite a low number considering the quantity that were produced,did this rifle go to France in 1914 I'm wondering???

There is an Indian connection with this weapon,of course,but did this come about much later in it's life?It was bored .410

at Ishapore in 1941 and is stamped to this effect on the left hand side of the buttstock socket,.410 RFI 1941 (can't imagine why I was thinking it was on the barrel band!!!)There is an Indian proof mark stamped on the breech,crown over GRI above two small crossed flags above a small letter P,this,I guess,was done after the rebore.

I'm thinking that I have here an early SMLE Mk III Volley Sight Model that would have served throughout The Great War,and probably went to France with the BEF IN 1914.It then,sometime in the interwar years,for unknown reasons wound up in India,where it spent the last of it's service days engaged in crowd control.Someone once told me that the lead shot in the cartridges was replaced with rice for these purposes,this,I guess,was only when the crowds didn't seem too threatening!!!

I suppose that I'll never know,but does anyone think that I may be somewhere near the mark with my thoughts on this.In the glory days of the far flung British Empire it may well have been anywhere,but the natives were getting restless!!!

Chris.

[xxx]

Hello,I'm afraid that my query about the riot shotgun aspect of this SMLE was a bit misleading,I have taken it down off the wall for the first time in years and reminded myself what marks are on it,and where these marks are.It is a deactivated piece by the way,this, of course,is the only legal way that such things can be openly displayed in the UK.

There is an Indian connection with this weapon,of course,but did this come about much later in it's life?It was bored .410

at Ishapore in 1941 and is stamped to this effect on the left hand side of the buttstock socket,.410 RFI 1941 (can't imagine why I was thinking it was on the barrel band!!!)There is an Indian proof mark stamped on the breech,crown over GRI above two small crossed flags above a small letter P,this,I guess,was done after the rebore.

Chris.

not an expert for lee enfield rifles and british military stamps but if its an original .410 indian musket probaly only a chamber cast will show it . only if its possible with a deactiveted gun ! the chamber will take a necked up 303 case, 56mm long but not a .410 2,5" shotgun cartridge. the shotgun cartridge will not go because its to thick at the mouth. I dont know if india arsenals have marked such riot guns but common sense it that they have something to indicate the change.

again, I know that a lot of old rifles bored smooth in britain as part of deactivation.

[leigh kitchen]

There were lots of these on the market in the UK in the 1980's, being sold by the likes of "World Wide Arms" of Birmingham & the like, advertised as days of the Raj Indian riot shotguns & with the forestocks bound in cord.

[peter monahan]

There were lots of these on the market in the UK in the 1980's, being sold by the likes of "World Wide Arms" of Birmingham & the like, advertised as days of the Raj Indian riot shotguns & with the forestocks bound in cord.

I believe that the "P" is the mark of the Peshawar Arsenal. It and Rawalpindi seem to have done a lot of re-working of older small arms - at one point Canada was flooded with Martini-Henry rifles (1880-1900 vintage) which had all been re-stocked in 'Pindi & Peshawar.

The cord binding on the forestock sounds lie the kind of re-inforcement seen on SMLEs used to launch rifle grenades, though most of those have wire bindings. I wonder whether perhaps this piece was intended to use blank shotgun shells to launch tear gas canisters or something similar. Interesting puzzle!

Sorry! Just re-read previous post and realized that the stock binding was on the pieces Leigh referred to and not this weapon. My bad. :(

Edited December 26, 2008 by peter monahan

[thursday chris]

Hello All,

I don't seem to have much hope of turning this particular "pigs ear" into a "silk purse",but nothing ventured nothing gained!!!

I was rather hoping that the markings had more significance than perhaps they actually have,but it seems there might be a great many similar pieces around. Ah well,better luck next time!!!

Chris.