Unkown WW1 German Medal on Medal Bar

[AlecH]

Evening All,

I was offered this four piece WW1 German Medal Bar with ribbon bar today, unfortunately I've had to crop the picture right down in order to get it to load up. A couple of questions - the unknown medal (at least to me) is the second one between Iron Cross 2nd Class & Hindernburg Cross ( think it may be Prussian, due ribbon colour) the fourth medal on the right is red cross. What is the second medal, if its a officer's medal coupled with the red cross medal would it mean the original wearer was a doctor or has it no bearing and the wearer was a normal sanit?ter. Also could someone give me a rough price, what one should pay.

Regards

[AlecH]

Reverse:

[W McSwiggan]

The second order is the Wurttemberger Frederick's Order.

It was awarded in rather high numbers especially considering the size of the kingdom's contingent in the army - (pre-war, regulars at Corps strength). It ranked lower than the War Merit Order.

The War Merit Order was the highest order given for military merit by the kingdom.

Not a collector so I can't help with prices - sorry.

[Guest Rick Research]

I could tell you what it would have sold for in 1986....

It looks NICE. The hinged swords on top of the Friedrich Order are nice-=- I forget which maker used that method of attachment.

In this case, with a wartime Prussian Red Cross Medal 3rd Class (in excellent condition despite being zink) I would say that this was almost certainly a military doctor's bar, in the Lieutenants' ranks-- so an Assistenzarzt or Oberarzt, regulars, dR, or dL.

[AlecH]

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks for the posts and information - couple of points I'd like to go through.

Rick,

I'm on the cusp of closing the deal for the medal bar, but I'm thrashing around in the dark for a price for the Friedrich Order, so regard, even your over 20 year old price, as not without value, for me it is a starting point.

I fully concur with your assessment, that its a military doctor's medal bar I found this link (http://home.att.net/~david.danner/mi...erttemberg.htm )- Friedrich Order - Knights Cross 2nd Class with Swords issued (to quote) - "Among junior officers, the Ritterkreuz II. Klasse mit Schwertern was typically awarded to Oberleutnante and Leutnante" a doctor would be given such a rank.

http://home.att.net/~david.danner/mi...erttemberg.htm

Hello W. McSwiggan,

As the Friedrick's Order was a officier's award. I was wondering, how high was the number of medals awarded?.

Best Wishes

[W McSwiggan]

Per Klietmann "5111 Friedrichs-Orden Ritterkreuze 2. mit Schwertern" were awarded during the Great War.

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks for the posts and information - couple of points I'd like to go through.

Rick,

I'm on the cusp of closing the deal for the medal bar, but I'm thrashing around in the dark for a price for the Friedrich Order, so regard, even your over 20 year old price, as not without value, for me it is a starting point.

I fully concur with your assessment, that its a military doctor's medal bar I found this link (http://home.att.net/~david.danner/mi...erttemberg.htm )- Friedrich Order - Knights Cross 2nd Class with Swords issued (to quote) - "Among junior officers, the Ritterkreuz II. Klasse mit Schwertern was typically awarded to Oberleutnante and Leutnante" a doctor would be given such a rank.

http://home.att.net/~david.danner/mi...erttemberg.htm

Hello W. McSwiggan,

As the Friedrick's Order was a officier's award. I was wondering, how high was the number of medals awarded?.

Best Wishes

[AlecH]

Hello W.

Thanks for the posting with the presentation number - did Klietmann give any price guide for the medal ?.

Best Wishes

[Ulsterman]

I know we don't like to give ballpark prices, but the closest sold item I found in my notes was an EK2/WFOx/HKx/LS18/LS4/Sudeten/Prague bar +ribbon bar (inc. Turkish Harp star rbbn./Hung.comm.) for $870 @ Jan. 2005.

Assuming the ribbon bar was worth @ $70 and the LS medals and Sudetenland medal were worth @ $150-$200, then about $600-$650 is a good ballpark number. I reckon $575 would be very fair in this market.

Just my guess estimation.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Ulsterman

[W McSwiggan]

Klietmann is not a pricing catalogue. His book is a reference outlining Merit and Bravery Medals for Imperial Germany and Her allies for the period of WWI through WWII.

Nimmergut's Orden & Ehrenzeichen Deutschland-Katalog 2001/2002 suggests 179 to 205 Euros depending on material at the time of publication.

This information is both dated and was of questionable value as of the publication date in the expressed opinion of many on this forum.

Hello W.

Thanks for the posting with the presentation number - did Klietmann give any price guide for the medal ?.

Best Wishes

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo AlecH,

that's a great looking bar

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[ukok]

Wurttemberg Knight 2nd Class with swords.

There's currently one on German ebay, ending in two days, and price is currently 150 euros with 16 bids. Might double by closing.

http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/wuerttemberg.htm

Good site for your research

[AlecH]

Hello,

I want to thank everyone for their impute, I?ve had a second perusal of J?rg Nimmergut?s medal catalogue and found the section with the W?rttemberg Knights Crosses along with a price guide, so I?ve everything I need.

Thanks again