Chile, Order of Merit - What is the Correct ribbon ?

[lilo]

Hello All,

I know that from its institution to the present time, different (in colours) ribbons were used for the Chile, Order of Merit.

The current ribbon is full blue colour.

I also know that the 1^st type of ribbon used for the Order in question when it was instituted (i.e. 1910), had three colours : blue / red / white.

That I have not still fully understood is what is it the correct sequence of these 3 colours :

Is it the blue, white, red (i.e. the 'white' in the centre) ?

or

Is it the blue, red, white (i.e. the 'red' in the centre) ?

I'm asking this because in the various German / British groups of the period (i.e. 1910's / 1920's) I found both these combinations of colours but I think the only one is the correct one.

Can someone tell me which is the correct sequence for the 1st type ribbon ??

Many Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Lilo

Edited February 21, 2009 by lilo

[heusy68]

Hello All,

I know that from its institution to the present time, different (in colours) ribbons were used for the Chile, Order of Merit.

The current ribbon is full blue colour.

I also know that the 1^st type of ribbon used for the Order in question when it was instituted (i.e. 1910), had three colours : blue / red / white.

That I have not still fully understood is what is it the correct sequence of these 3 colours :

Is it the blue, white, red (i.e. the 'white' in the centre) ?

or

Is it the blue, red, white (i.e. the 'red' in the centre) ?

I'm asking this because in the various German / British groups of the period (i.e. 1910's / 1920's) I found both these combinations of colours but I think the only one is the correct one.

Can someone tell me which is the correct sequence for the 1st type ribbon ??

Many Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Lilo

Hello Lilo,

The first one is the grade of Silver Cross and this one was awarded to a minister of Fran?ois Joseh of Austria in 1909.On the award document which I have the colours are in similar sequence : White/Blue/Red.

I know that some will say that it's the same like serbian ribbon for the bravery medals,but on serbian ribbon the sequence is inversed ( Red/Blue/White )....

But to add to confusion the 2nd picture is a Commander Grade which I purchased in Chile,it's absolutely NOT like the modern Order of Merit,actually it's same size as the Silver Cross,and here the sequence is : Blue/White/Red.Also in the UBS auction from the Tammam collection in novembre 2008,there was another Silver Cross with ribbon ( Blue/White/Red ).Mr Tammam is a great specialist in lots of topic,and Chile is one of those topic.

What we know is that from 1906 to 1924 there was only 3 Classes (with the 2 highest here on display).

The lowest was a similar cross without enamel on arms.

I think there is a lot to debate....

Emmanuel

[heusy68]

Hello All,

I know that from its institution to the present time, different (in colours) ribbons were used for the Chile, Order of Merit.

The current ribbon is full blue colour.

I also know that the 1^st type of ribbon used for the Order in question when it was instituted (i.e. 1910), had three colours : blue / red / white.

That I have not still fully understood is what is it the correct sequence of these 3 colours :

Is it the blue, white, red (i.e. the 'white' in the centre) ?

or

Is it the blue, red, white (i.e. the 'red' in the centre) ?

I'm asking this because in the various German / British groups of the period (i.e. 1910's / 1920's) I found both these combinations of colours but I think the only one is the correct one.

Can someone tell me which is the correct sequence for the 1st type ribbon ??

Many Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Lilo

This is a close-up from the Original Award Diploma.

Emmanuel

[lilo]

This is a close-up from the Original Award Diploma.

Emmanuel

Hi Emmanuel,

First, I would let you know that I made the above question because I'm studying the full medal entitlement to Lord Baden Powell and would like to understand what is the correct ribbon that should go on his Chile, Order of Merit.

I was advised by a friend collector that in the file regarding the award of the Chile, Order of Merit to Baden Powell, held in the British National Archives, there is the following entry :

Chile Order of Merit Gold medal 1911 Approved

1st class London Gazette 9.8.1929

So apparently He received a Gold Star ('medal' in the papers) in 1911 and later a 1st class in 1929.

1)

Confronting what you have written, Dear Emmanuel, and what reported by the B-P papers at the archives, it seems to me to understand that B-P received what in 1911 was the Highest class (the GOLD Star) between the 3 classes awarded in the period 1906-1924, isn't it ?

2)

Regarding the sequence of the colours on the ribbon, you say that the 'Silver Cross' -with Blue enamell-(that if I have well understood correspond to the 2nd class in the period 1906-1924) awarded in 1909, has the following sequence of colours: White/Blue/Red.

You have also posted what seems to be a 'Gold Star' - with White enamell- (i.e. a 1st class in the period 1906-1924), similar to what I think to be awarded to Lord B-P also because it has the white enamell that I can see on the same Cross worn by B-P in the photos. This class appears to be suspended from a ribbon whose sequence of colours are the following : Blue/White/Red.

Is it wrong to suspect that the 1st class (GOLD Star, with 'WHITE' enamel) of this Order in the period 1906-1924, was suspended from a ribbon whose sequence of colours was Blue/White/Red, while the 2nd class (the SILVER Star, with 'BLUE' enamel) in the same period, was suspended from a ribbon whose sequence of colours was White/Blue/Red ?

Many Thanks in advance

Regards

Lilo

Edited February 23, 2009 by lilo

[heusy68]

Hi Emmanuel,

First, I would let you know that I made the above question because I'm studying the full medal entitlement to Lord Baden Powell and would like to understand what is the correct ribbon that should go on his Chile, Order of Merit.

I was advised by a friend collector that in the file regarding the award of the Chile, Order of Merit to Baden Powell, held in the British National Archives, there is the following entry :

Chile Order of Merit Gold medal 1911 Approved

1st class London Gazette 9.8.1929

So apparently He received a Gold Star ('medal' in the papers) in 1911 and later a 1st class in 1929.

1)

Confronting what you have written, Dear Emmanuel, and what reported by the B-P papers at the archives, it seems to me to understand that B-P received what in 1911 was the Highest class (the GOLD Star) between the 3 classes awarded in the period 1906-1924, isn't it ?

2)

Regarding the sequence of the colours on the ribbon, you say that the 'Silver Cross' -with Blue enamell-(that if I have well understood correspond to the 2nd class in the period 1906-1924) awarded in 1909, has the following sequence of colours: White/Blue/Red.

You have also posted what seems to be a 'Gold Star' - with White enamell- (i.e. a 1st class in the period 1906-1924), similar to what I think to be awarded to Lord B-P also because it has the white enamell that I can see on the same Cross worn by B-P in the photos. This class appears to be suspended from a ribbon whose sequence of colours are the following : Blue/White/Red.

Is it wrong to suspect that the 1st class (GOLD Star, with 'WHITE' enamel) of this Order in the period 1906-1924, was suspended from a ribbon whose sequence of colours was White/Blue/Red, while the 2nd class (the SILVER Star, with 'BLUE' enamel) in the same period, was suspended from a ribbon whose sequence of colours was Blue/White/Red ?

Many Thanks in advance

Regards

Lilo

Hello Lilo,

If Baden Powell got the Gold Medal in 1911,he got a commander cross like mine (but he certainly got one in real gold,mine is silver-gilt).So your supposition is 100 % correct.

When he got a First Class in 1929,this is a Grand Cross with sash badge & breast star with a dark blue sash.

Concerning the ribbon of the 1911 decoration,I have to say that the 2 decoration that "live" with me,came like that.You saw on the award document what is the colour of the 2nd Class ( = Silver Cross with blue enamel & White/Blue/Red ribbon ).But Tammam had another Silver Cross with a ribbon ( Blue/White/Red ),and I saw often this ribbon combination.

In june 2005,there was an auction in Germany with a Chile Order of Merit Gold Medal from the 1st Type,which is the same as the one Baden Powell got,this evening I will scan it for you.

Can you post a close-up scan of the ribbon bar,and or medal bar of Baden Powell ?

I saw you ask on another topic about a Sweden Life Saving Medal Gustav V,and yes as a foreigner he should have got one with latin motto on reverse.

Emmanuel

[lilo]

When he got a First Class in 1929,this is a Grand Cross with sash badge & breast star with a dark blue sash.

Dear Emmanuel,

Thanks for the replay.

First, I must admit that after reading your first post, I re-checked what the other researcher wrote to me a propos of B-P Chilean awards so I recognised that there was a mistake/incomprehension :

B-P received only the : Chile Order of Merit Gold medal 1911 (Approved).

The entry '1st class London Gazette 9.8.1929' refers to the Hungarian, Order of Merit, NOT the Chilean one !

Regarding the B-P's ribbon bar, unfortunately, I haven't it or a photo of it.

My intention is to reproduce it, using old silk ribbons, after that my research on this and some other Orders, is finished.

Best Regards

Lilo

P.S.

I'll wait, with impatience, your posting of the photo of the 'Chile Order of Merit Gold Medal from the 1st Type, which is the same as the one Baden Powell got', that you saw in June 2005, in the auction in Germany.

Edited February 23, 2009 by lilo

[heusy68]

Dear Emmanuel,

Thanks for the replay.

First, I must admit that after reading your first post, I re-checked what the other researcher wrote to me a propos of B-P Chilean awards so I recognised that there was a mistake/incomprehension :

B-P received only the : Chile Order of Merit Gold medal 1911 (Approved).

The entry '1st class London Gazette 9.8.1929' refers to the Hungarian, Order of Merit, NOT the Chilean one !

Regarding the B-P's ribbon bar, unfortunately, I haven't it or a photo of it.

My intention is to reproduce it, using old silk ribbons, after that my research on this and some other Orders, is finished.

Best Regards

Lilo

P.S.

I'll wait, with impatience, your posting of the photo of the 'Chile Order of Merit Gold Medal from the 1st Type, which is the same as the one Baden Powell got', that you saw in June 2005, in the auction in Germany.

Hello Lilo,sorry to disappoint you,I checked this afternoon,and even if there was a Chile Order of Merit Gold Medal 1st Type in the Kuenker 2005,that one was without ribbon....

Emmanuel

[lilo]

Hi Emmanuel,

Never mind.

Many thanks the same for your precious comments !

Best Regards

Lilo