British Sword opinion

[Hlynur76]

Hello friends.

I got this Wilkinson Sword few days ago as a gift. It was found in garage here in Iceland.

The story I got when I asked where it comes from, I was told that when the British army occupied Iceland 10th of May 1940. Some British soldier just left it behind when he got home.

I have no idea by who, but I know the British troops left Iceland summer 1945.

I don?t know much about this sword, what kind of a soldier rank had it, what time and division this kind of sword belong to.

The blade itself is 71 cm long and I notice the ?/00 mark on the blade. I guess it?s made in 1900.

All info is welcomed and possible value, thanks. (I?m not going to sell it btw)

Hlynur

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[Mervyn Mitton]

An interesting sword - I wonder what it was doing in Iceland - of all places? It is the 1890's pattern British cavalry troopers sword and according to the engraving on the forte (the part of the blade just under the guard) was first issued in 1900.('00)

This , of course, makes it a Boer War period sword. (Boer War 1899-1902). This pattern first appeared in 1864 - and despite modifications remained in service until 1908. During the Boer War there were several instances of men falling out of their saddles during the charge - the problem being that the sword had become too heavy and shifted the centre of balance. After the war finished the British set-up a Royal Commission to investigate the problem - a serious one since in one instance an entire troop of some twenty men were unhorsed. The answer to the problem was the 1908 cavalry sword which was pointed and carried into battle with arm extended - unlike the shown example which was for slashing. The 1908 (and the officers version in 1912) has always been regarded as one of the best balanced sword ever made.

Your blade has British Board of Ordnance marks for being sold out of service, so, I suppose someone bought it and it has ended up in Iceland -- could be useful for polar bears - do you have them in Iceland?

Mervyn Mitton

[Mervyn Mitton]

I should have added that this is not the correct scabbard - it should be all metal and with two suspension rings.

Mervyn Mitton

[Hlynur76]

Thank you Mervyn for very good answers.

No we don?t have polar bears here in Iceland (In 2008 two of them came with Iceberg from Greenland for first time in many years).

I guess some british soldier took it to Iceland in WW2. Because someone had no clue what was waiting for him here. Maybe was it?s role for defence on polar bears

"Boer War" hmm.. intresting. Was it then used in Boer war? Does it means that sword was made at the same time as it was issued or is this ?/00 mark just for issue year?

You say this scabbard is not the right one, I guess you are correct on that because the sword does not fit all the way in. I guess someone who had bought the sword have found some scabbard to use with. (Like the first picture shows)

I might sell it if I get right offer ;)

Edited March 23, 2009 by Hlynur76

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi. 1900 was the year of manufacture - I would say the likelihood of it being used in South Africa is high - but we would have to eastablish which unit it was issued to. Value wise - a complete one , in good condition, is about ?200/300. I am afraid without a scabbard you will be lucky to get ?100.

Best wishes - our temp. at present is 28c - in the shade - on most days , so, a little of your weather would be welcome.

Mervyn

[Hlynur76]

Best wishes - our temp. at present is 28c - in the shade - on most days , so, a little of your weather would be welcome.

Mervyn

The temp. here is good atm.. dry, sunny and 2C? - 4C? in shadow today. Now snow atm.. only on mountains ;)

[Jonathan Hopkins]

Sorry to resurrect this somewhat old thread, but the sword is not a cavalry sword. It is a British Pattern 1900 Naval Cutlass, hence its length and scabbard.

Jonathan

[Mervyn Mitton]

Jonathan - welcome to the GMIC - I am always most happy to be corrected - we learn all the time. However, the guard and grip look the same as the cavalry sword of that period - the earlier ones had the maltese cross as a cut out, but not on the later ones. Do you have a big collection of swords ?

Best wishes Mervyn

[Jonathan Hopkins]

Mervyn,

Thank you for the welcome. The hilt is similar to the cavalry troopers' patterns of the time and can be easily confused with the cavalry pattern when measurements are not provided. Here is what Annis & May (Swords for Sea Service Vol. 1)say about the P1889 and P1900 cutlasses:

The National Maritime Museum has a few examples:

Pattern 1889 Naval Cutlass

Pattern 1900 Naval Cutlass

My main focus is British officers' swords of the Victorian period, but my collection encompasses the 18th century through World War I. My collection is relatively small with around 16 British swords and a few stragglers from other countries and periods. Over the past several years I have sold a number of swords in order to improve the quality of my collection, which has resulted in a smaller overall collection.

All the best,

Jonathan

[Mervyn Mitton]

I owe apologies to Hylnur for giving wrong info - I was convinced it was the 1899 cavalry. I spotted the short blade , but thought with the swords background that it might have been cut-down. I see now, that they probably used the cavalry one as a guide for the hilt and guard. I have no idea of value for the cutlass - perhaps you can give Hylnur a guide ?

Your collection sounds very interesting - it will be nice to see some good posts, this section doesn't seem to get a lot of action.

Mervyn

[Jonathan Hopkins]

Based on what I see traded online, these are not a common pattern. I am not sure if they are "rare", but in my experience they are less common than their cavalry doppelgangers. I don't have any idea as to the value, unfortunately.

Jonathan

[Dmitry]

Good call, Jonathan!

It's nice piece, and obviously not a cavalry sword, having a 70 cm-long blade it couldn't be, could it?!

They are not common, but then again, not too many cutlasses are, as a rule of thumb.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Ah ! But don't forget Dmitry, the hilt is almost identical to the cavalry pattern of the time - incl. the rubberised grip and it was a very battered example. I didn't have the blade length and thought it might have been 1) cut down - ( commonly done to fight polar bears !!!) 2) perspective of the photo - causing fore-shortening.

[Hlynur76]

Thanks for your info guys and your answers Jonathan, I appreciate.

No problem Mervyn, we are all learning ;)