7 Place TR Polizei Ribbon Bar

[SMV]

Hello Gents,

I am a TR Schutzpolizei collector and for several years I have been searching for a combat related Senior Combat Officer's ribbon bar to go with my combat converted M36 Schupo Major's tunic. This would be my

first ribbon bar purchase.

I found what I thought was a great match, however, I have had several seasoned polizei collectors tell me that it's quite posible for various reasons their basic feeling is that the bar might be fake, with reasons ranging from age of ribbons to fake devices, to too many combat awards on a police bar, but esp. the solid type LS Pol. device not being a period piece perhaps.

I took a look at Rick Research's ribbon device gallery and found an example of a silver solid type and that is encouraging. However, I wanted to show some pics of the bar in question, to get a different group feedback.

Kind Regards,

Marcus

[SMV]

Close up of Pol. LS and NSDAP 10 yr. devices.

Edited April 29, 2009 by SMV

[SMV]

Reverse side.

[SMV]

Last one, side view of devices. Sorry, it's a bit blurry. I hate these auto focus cameras.

Thanks for having a look.

Marcus

[Guest Rick Research]

It is a fake ribbon bar. The NSDAP device is a real 15 years silver one which has been painted brown by the faker. The style of pin hinge on the back is typical of Frankenstein parts work.

Is there a name label on the tunic? If can match him to wartime Seniority Lists and if he was in the SS, might have a better idea of what a named person's actual awards were.

From my 1941 seniority list, there were a LOT of 40-ish Nazi Police Majors who had little to no pre-Third Reich service credit in the police, so it is entirely possible to have nothing but the usual 3 or 4 Sudeten-to-Ostfront sorts of ribbons that could have belonged to anyone from an army corporal to a Waffen SS Sturmbannf?hrer.

The other option, of course, is that while it is the simplified wartime economy tunic, it could just as easily have been worn by a 50 year old WW1 veteran stay-at-home.

To figure out what FIT, measure the millimeters of the existing ribbon bar loops on the outside of the outer ones and that will reveal how many ribbons were actually worn.

Most of the younger Nazi-cadre types wopuld have fallen through the cracks and had no long service awad at all, since those were suspended at some vague point in mid-war we've never been able to pinpoint yet from the Reichsgesetzbl?tter.

It is always better to "under-dress" a display uniform (as the reality of period photos show actual people) than to "Where Eagles Dare" Hollywood-ize something. :beer:

[Robin Lumsden]

Fake v original, for comparison..............

[Guest Rick Research]

The solid device is probably OK-- an ugly and uncommon style, but not unknown. Doktor Frankenstein and his merry band of international chisellers most often (until this century) used original devices and mostly original ribbons, but had to snip out backing metal parts by hand. Now the situation has reversed, with boxes of original backings sold on eCrap in recent years, but the supplies of original ribbons and devices run out or running out.

Another device that can be found pierced or solid is the Zoll long service emblem. Took too much hand labour to slice out microscopic bits as their war went down hill, so they stopped bothering with the details. That's when the one piece swords came in too, so feeble little bendable tabs instead of soldering on pins.

If a seven ribbon bar FITS existing loops, chances are he was a WW1 veteran stay-at-home.

This "Field Marshal" was a former Mecklenburg NCO most likely a Gendarmerie Meister in his mid 50s:

he's got 3 "gimme" freebie foreign WW1 commemorative medals to pad out his group, and as an Old Boy, the Civil Defense medal and a far from the real war KVK2. Having an old Imperial army long service cross to pair off with his Polizei one also makes for an "impressive" but typical group for a home front senior sergeant.