China 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain' - differences between the 1st and the 2nd class

[lilo]

Hi Everyone,

While checking the Sotheby's auction catalogue of 24^th-28^th March, 1995 I found two Lots (341 and 342) that were described respectively as the 1^st class and the 2^nd class of the China, Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain'.

I have attached the two photos that are on the catalogue for the two classes.

As you can clearly see there is a physical evident difference between the badges of these two classes.

My Question

Can - a more expert member of this forum - confirm this physical difference between the classes of this Order ?

In other words what I would like to know is if the physical difference between the badges of the 1^st class and the 2^nd class of this Order is correct.

Many Thanks

Lilo

Below is the 1st Class of this Order

Edited May 4, 2009 by lilo

[lilo]

Below is the 2nd class of this Order

Edited May 4, 2009 by lilo

[Richard LaTondre]

Lilo:

As I am unfamiliar with listing photos on this website, I prefer that you direct your questions regarding medals to the OMSA website at:

http://www.omsa.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Do you have any problems with that? The reason is that the OMSA website is designed specifically for medals only. The GMIC website does not specialize in medals. I have information concerning the order with the red stones.

I want to caution you once again about using my photographs without giving the source. The photograph is a reproduction of my copyrighted photo. In order for you to use any of my photos you need to insert the following: "Photo courtesy of Richard LaTondre, Hoover Institution, Stanford University"

Respectfully,

Richard

[lilo]

Lilo:

As I am unfamiliar with listing photos on this website, I prefer that you direct your questions regarding medals to the OMSA website at:

http://www.omsa.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Do you have any problems with that? The reason is that the OMSA website is designed specifically for medals only. The GMIC website does not specialize in medals. I have information concerning the order with the red stones.

I want to caution you once again about using my photographs without giving the source. The photograph is a reproduction of my copyrighted photo. In order for you to use any of my photos you need to insert the following: "Photo courtesy of Richard LaTondre, Hoover Institution, Stanford University"

Respectfully,

Richard

Hello Richard,

I was not aware that one (I presume that in colour) of the two photos I posted is one of yours (the other was taken from a Sotheby's catalog). From a long time I have saved in my database photos of medals and orders from an infinity of sources only as a riferiment for my research and no infringiment of copyright was intended.

However, I apologise if I was wrong.

What I don't understand is your statement : 'once again'.

Can you, respectfully, let me know what was the other occasion when I posted one of your photos so that I try to remember which one are yours and which aren't to avoid any problem in the future ????

For what regards your suggestion on the Chinese Orders with the 'red stone', I'll follow it and I'll post the above question on the other forum.

In the meanwhile thank you to have taken trouble in answering my post.

Regards

Lilo

Edited May 25, 2009 by lilo

[Richard LaTondre]

Lilo:

The Order of the Golden Grain was established 29 July 1912 by President Yuan Shih Kai as an award for outstanding Civil Merit. (Chia Ho).

The order came in two classes:

The First Class Order of the Golden Grain has two grades:

The First Grade which is the Order of the Most Precious Brilliant Golden Grain (Chia Ho Bao Xing). This Grade has five classes with brilliants (I believe the term brilliants refers to the gem stones ((17)) mounted in the circle. i.e., the rubies).

The Second Grade has nine classes without brilliants.

The badge that you have shown from Sothebys is described as an wight pointed gold star upon which has been superimposed a 12 pointed gold rimmed, yellow bordered, red enamel cross. The center medallion portrays on a white enamel background five green and gold sheaves of wheat set in a circular pattern. In the center is a medium sized ruby. The center medallion is surrounded by seventeen small rubies. The badge is suspended from a green and gold laurel wreath.

Richard

[lilo]

Richard,

1)

After researching what I saved in my database, I have found a discussion we made on the OMSA forum (about a similar subject) that I completely have forgotten but that is extremely interesting.

You can see it at : http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2142

What emerged in that occasion was that, if I have well understood what you have written, the 'Order of the Golden Grain (Chia Ho)' and the the 'Order of the Most Precious Brilliant Golden Grain (Pao Kuang)' are two DIFFERENT Orders.

In this instance, if I have well understood, you are describing them as one and the same Order and in particular that the 'Precious Brilliant (Pao Kuang)' is a 'grade' of the 1st class of the Golden Grain (Chia Ho).

Can you please better explain the what is correct between the two facts above stated ?

2)

Returning to my initial question asked at the starting of this post and regarding the China, Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain', can you strictly confirm that there is a physical evident difference between the badges of the 1^st class and the 2^nd class of this Order ?

3)

Regarding what we discussed in the OMSA forum (http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2142), a question still remain un-answered :

Have you been able, by now, to ascertain what are the different colours used for the 1st and 2nd class ribbons of the Golden Grain Order (Chia Ho) ??

As previously stated I suspect that the 1^st class used a wide yellow central stripe with 2 red edge stripes while the 2^nd class had always the wide yellow central stripe but the edges stripes were white in colour.

What can you tell me at this propos ?

Awaiting to hear from you

Best Regards

Lilo

Edited May 26, 2009 by lilo

[lilo]

edit

Edited May 26, 2009 by lilo

[lilo]

edited

Edited May 26, 2009 by lilo

[Richard LaTondre]

Richard,

1)

After researching what I saved in my database, I have found a discussion we made on the OMSA forum (about a similar subject) that I completely have forgotten but that is extremely interesting.

You can see it at :

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2142

What emerged in that occasion was that, if I have well understood what you have written, the 'Order of the Golden Grain (Chia Ho)' and the the 'Order of the Most Precious Brilliant Golden Grain (Pao Kuang)' are two DIFFERENT Orders.

In this instance, if I have well understood, you are describing them as one and the same Order and in particular that the 'Precious Brilliant (Pao Kuang)' is a 'grade' of the 1st class of the Golden Grain (Chia Ho).

Can you please better explain the what is correct between the two facts above stated ?

2)

Returning to my initial question asked at the starting of this post and regarding the China, Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain', can you strictly confirm that there is a physical evident difference between the badges of the 1^st class and the 2^nd class of this Order ?

3)

Regarding what we discussed in the OMSA forum (

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2142), a question still remain un-answered :

Have you been able, by now, to ascertain what are the different colours used for the 1st and 2nd class ribbons of the Golden Grain Order (Chia Ho) ??

As previously stated I suspect that the 1^st class used a wide yellow central stripe with 2 red edge stripes while the 2^nd class had always the wide yellow central stripe but the edges stripes were white in colour.

What can you tell me at this propos ?

Awaiting to hear from you

Best Regards

Lilo

I believe that it may well be the same Order but with later additions. I have no additional information to offer.

King Kwok Cheung wrote an article in the JOMSA in 2002 addressing this possibility. See "Orders of the Golden Grain and Precious Brilliant Golden Grain Republic of China (1912-1929) The Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America Vol 53, No 3, May-June 2002.