Owner's Identity

[Stuart Bates]

I just purchased a Wolseley to an ADC (red over white plume) But the identity of the owner has been erased. A paper label to the interior has had the name of the soldier ripped out and all I can make out is Capt. The helmet has the maker's label stamp intact of Edward Smith, 25 Cork St, London and the accompanying storage/transit also has this maker's brass plate but the soldier's ID plate has also been removed.

Does anyone have any idea why people did this? The seller says that the owner was a Capt. Lindsay of the Grenadier Guards but so far I have not located him.

Any help much appreciated.

Stuart

Edited May 18, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

Here is the maker's label.

[Stuart Bates]

Here is the tin which is much taller than the others that I have. It is obviously a double helmet tin but with a compartment for the plume holder which came with the purchase.

Stuart

[Mervyn Mitton]

Stuart - - a rare and great helmet - superb condition. I think families removed labels - as with naming on medals - because they thought their family name should not be sold, and also, that it might be thought they needed money. The japanned tin AND the plume holder case make this exceptional. Congratulations - what a pity it is too late for the book.

[Stuart Bates]

Mervyn,

that makes good sense. Being an ADC and an officer in the Grenadier Guards almost guarantees that he came from a "good" family.

The helmet will be in the next book! Has MSHOTW not yet arrived? I did send it to the shop but that should be OK.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

I just heard from the seller and the brass label from the tin is in existence but won't be released until the officer's mother dies. makes me now feel like a vulture.

Stuart

[Guest Rick Research]

"officer's mother dies."

How OLD is this helmet and tin?

[Stuart Bates]

Maybe I got it wrong and it is not his mum but another relative - daughter?

As to the age I would say 1930s. Edward Smith was located at 5 Boyle St, W.1. in 1938 and still there in 1944 so I am assuming that they were in Cork Street before that. As far as I know Wolseleys were last made in 1942. I have never seen one dated after that.

I do know that the last recorded use of the Wolseley was by the 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars in 1949.

Stuart

Edited May 18, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Mervyn Mitton]

Shame on you !! You've got the helmet - she's got his name plate - I prefer your side of the deal...

Stuart - I think you overlooked telling members that the red plumes , represented the red hat band for a staff officer - his rank wouldn't have been high enough otherwise. I think I'm right on that ? Mervyn

[Stuart Bates]

The shame is that I can't identify the officer!

General and staff officers wore white over red swan feathers - the maximum length depending on their rank.

Military Secretaries and Aides-de-Camp wore red over white.

ADCs could be any rank I thought - I don't even know what a Military Secretary is. Take, for instance, Captain Louis Nolan who was General Airey's ADC in the Crimea.

As to the correspondence between the red feathers and the red cap band for staff officers I can't answer that one. I looked in the 1864 DRs and the same arrangement of feathers and colours applied.

Stuart

Edited May 18, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Mervyn Mitton]

I always understood that the red - on cocked hat or, cap - was to ensure that troops and units gave them clear passage, as they could be carrying important despatches. I have Met. Police , asst.commisioner's bi-corne hat and it has blue over white feathers. Mervyn

[Stuart Bates]

Mervyn,

you could be right, I just don't know. I thought that the badge of office for an aide-de-camp is the aiguillette. However, since so many officers had a white over red plume, the red over white would indeed distinguish an ADC.

Stuart

[Mervyn Mitton]

I think you are quite right about the aigulettes - however, on the field this wouldn't always be visible - the red band would.