Imperial German Naval Sword named to Andersen

[Poison Dwarf]

Hi, all. My first post on this board, and an appropriate time considering it's Memorial Day here in the US. Here's a new acquisition as of about three hours ago: an m1913 Imperial German Naval Sword named to Andersen. It's my first naval sword (not counting a British cutlass bayonet), and my first damascus blade.

Based on Rick's assessment of the virtually identical sword in this thread -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=26183 -- I was worried that I wouldn't be able to confirm ownership. That is, until I pulled out the loupe and found "Andersen" on the rounded portion of the nearside lip of the guard. It's has almost been obliterated by rubbing, but it's there. Rick, any thoughts as to the availability of info on Herr Andersen's naval career, or Herr L?we's, for that matter? It must have been a long one judging from the wear on the hilt where the name is inscribed.

The pipeback blade features "L?we s/l Andersen" in relief and, while it is in good overall shape, there are stains here and there, and a minor nick or two in the edge. Interestingly, my sword was retailed by the same firm as NJB's in the aforementioned thread: G.B. & S. Anyone know them? The opposite side bears the Kirschbaum knight's head stamp. As I said, I'm new to damascus steel. Can one tell from just looking at it whether it is "genuine" damascus or "damaststahl"?

The hilt retains a lot of its fire gilt, and the red and green lion's eyes are intact. There's a chip out of the ivory (bone?) and a few vertical cracks in the grip, the but the wrap wire is intact. The guard spring is strong.

The scabbard is minty -- no creases, no dents. The suspension rings even have the original belt hooks attached (sadly, no belts).

Photos attached below. Comments, thoughts, recommendations are welcome.

Thanks,

Mark

Edited May 25, 2009 by Poison Dwarf

[Poison Dwarf]

More

[Poison Dwarf]

Even more

[Poison Dwarf]

Still more

[Poison Dwarf]

Done

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: I think this is only the second presentation--that is, 2 names--naval sword I've ever seen.

That should make it easier to place because the two should be contemporaries and "match up" probably at initial commissioning stage. that's when most army swords seem to have been given-- from one cadet to another passing out of final training.

Back in a bit... must consult various and assorted years.

PS Nothing worse than one last name and more than one guy with that name. :banger:

[Bear]

I'm new at this so I'm not sure what I've found.

Rangliste Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine (1905)

page 42

Charlotte - Maybe his Ship

Lt.z.s. L?we(Arul or Ural)

The Charlotte was a Tall Ship built in 1886, from 1903-1905 she was used for training.

page 43

Stein - Maybe his Ship

Lt.z.s. Andersen or it might be Undersen

Stein - Kreuzerfregatte(Bismarck Class )

Edited May 25, 2009 by Bear

[Poison Dwarf]

I'm salivatin' guys. Tell me more . . . .

Mark

[Guest Rick Research]

Oh good. Nothing like finding TOTAL information.

Gift giver Axel L?we was born in Landsberg/Warthe 1 March 1883. Died 23 November 1955. Navy 10 April 1901 to 22 November 1919. Wartime rank Kapit?nleutnant zur See, retired as char Korvettenkapit?n zS to date 21.01.20. Was 2nd Gunnery Officer on SMS Seydlitz to August 1917, then 1st Gunnery Officer on SMS von der Tann to war's end,earning both Iron Crosses and the Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Class with Swords. Would have received XXV Years Service Cross after the war for double wartime and pre-war sea service.

He was an estate owner in Augustenruh bei G?strow in Mecklenburg between the wars. Was a KorvKapt zS dR when the war started. Recalled for WW2 as CO Naval Flak Battalion 261 September 1939 to November 1940, and CO Naval Flak Battalion 233/Flak Commander Swinem?nde December 1940 to March 1945. Kapit?n zS dR 01.12.43. Retired 30.04.45

Recipient

Otto Andersen was born 17 June 1882 Wunstorf bei Hannover. Died 11 July 1953. Navy 10 April 1901 to 29 January 1920. Wartime rank Kapit?nleutnant zS 25 April 1912 Ee, retired as char. Korvettenkapit?n zS aD 29.01.20. Commanded torpedo boats during the war-- "S176" of 16/VIII to October 1914, "S34" in 18/IX to February 1917, and then commanded the 17th Half-Flotilla to war's end. Had a Mecklenburg Order of the Griffin-Knight before the war (award rolls being worked on for publication) and earned both classes of Iron Cross during the war. Would also have received the XXV Years Service Cross.

He owned an eponymous lacquers, pigments, and oils business at his residence, Klingerstra?e 13 (Telefon 625 17) in Hannover in 1939, when he was listed as a KorvKapt zV.

Recalled for WW2, known service from February 1943 to end on staff of R?stungsinspektion XI as Naval Section Chief. Final rank Fregattenkapit?n zS zV 1 January 1945.

Both would have had the Hindenburg CRoss for Combatants, of course, and per regulations should have exchanged their old XXV for the WEhrmacht 25 and 12 while back in uniform for the Second War. Undoubtedly both got War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Swords-- L?we maybe bar(s) to Iron Cross and certainly a Naval Flak badge for all his duty.

A sword without its proper knot always looks naked, but since Andersen served in the Second WAr, your chances of finding a perfectly proper Kriegsmarine one are vastly greater than turning up an Imperial navy one. Well worth the effort for a valiant old warrior like this.

An authorized reprint of Hans Hildebrand's essential WW2 Kriegsmarine officers' service records "Die Deutsche Kreigsmarine 1939-1945" (out of print since 1964) as well as the WW1 Naval Honor Rank List on CD etc can ve ordered from Paul C here on GMIC.

Annual naval Rank Lists between 1902 (when they noth made F?hnrich zur See and so are first listed) and 1914 would detail assignments and promotions as Lieutenants.

[Poison Dwarf]

Rick and Bear:

Amazing! Andersen was an S-Boat commander in WWI!?!?! Wow, I thought they were a WWII weapon! This one's a keeper.

You have a real command of the records. My hat is off to you both. If you come across anything else relevant to these gentleman, I will be interested to say the very least.

Again, many thanks,

Mark

[Guest Rick Research]

Both were at the Batlle of Jutland 31 May-1 June 1916 in the Battle Cruiser force.

Andersen was lucky to have taken over Half Flotilla command (as far as I can tell, lead boat was "S36") because HIS "S34" hit a mine at 3:05 AM on 3 October 1918 in the North Sea and exploded with a loss of 70 lives. Standard crew strength was normally 83.

BTW, German torpedo boat designations are a nightmare, with the same numbers used over and over. Andersen's "S34" was (DOH!) of the "V25" class.

[Poison Dwarf]

Six hours from acquisition to full history. Impressive. It's been a good Memorial Day for me and for the memories of Kapit?nleutnant zur See Otto Andersen and his friend Axel L?we.

Thank you.

[Bear]

Here is a link to the 1905 Rangliste.

Their names are in yellow on page 42/43.

Those Funny Letters

Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=oAtQAAAAI...PX4tQQ#PPA43,M1

[Guest Rick Research]

Ach ZAT chu kinnet learn vrom gooklebughz. Lucky for me I learned Churman that way.

L?we-- Leutnant zS 29.09.04 S3s, on SMS Charlotte, the cadets' summer cruise ship, in 1905 .(On the cruise of 1902-03 they were the main force in the blockade of Venezuela. Kids. Oil. Foreign policy....) Oberleutnant zS 27.04.07 N, with I. Werft Division ashore in 1907. On SMS Deutschland in 1910. Promotion date to Oberleunant indicates did not hold an Abitur high school diploma. Marine Offiziere Verband Member Number 2503. Apparently never married.

Andersen-- Leutnant zS 29.09.04 F3f on SMS Stein in 1905. Oberleutnant zS 27.04.07 A, with II. Torpedo Division and the excess staffing for torpedo boat Maneuver Flotilla in 1907. 1910 on "S178"-- a pure Small Boats guy. Promotion indicates that he did not have an Abitur diploma either.

He was Marine Offizier Verband Member Number 5. This was the professional and welfare association of former German naval officers. Since the late 1930s the M.O.V. has been-- and still is-- the M.O.H. e.V.

1928: automobile section buyer for Hanomag in Hannover

1931: Procurist at Hannoversche Waggonfabrik "Hawa"

1935 and 1937: Sales representative in Hannover for these three firms--

Grau-Relius, of Hamburg;

Dr. Eberlein and Dr. Wagner, of Nieder-Ingelheim;

and

Drei Kronen ?l, of Hamburg

Also apparently never married.

As members of Crew 1901, at some point 1920s-60s someone would have done a Crew Buch 1901 which--find one-- might have quite a bit more data. I don't have this year.

Dog ownership status remains unclear.

[Poison Dwarf]

Yes, that's all fine and good you guys, but what were their Mother's names?

C'mon, try to deliver something of value!

Seriously . . . very, very much appreciated.

Mark

[Guest Rick Research]

THAT we can only do for vons!

Do not be surprised if 3 hours or 17 years from now, somebody is google searching names and.... :catjava:

[Poison Dwarf]

The way this has been unfolding, I'll put my money on three hours.

[Bear]

I'm not sure about the copyright so if that is a problem delete.

website

marinesiedlung berlin schlachtensee

http://home.arcor.de/ajuettemann/wonnegau/marine.htm

Axel L?we

Axel Loewe, Kapit?nleutnant (*1883 +1955)

1939-1940: Kommandeur der Marineflakabteilung 261

1940-1945: Kommandeur der Marineflakabteilung 233

1940-1945: Flakkommandeur Swinem?nde

1943-1944: Kommandant im Abschnitt Swinem?nde

[Guest Rick Research]

For an Unbeliever, he's gooooooooooooooood.

Not an Epson scan-- from Paul C's WW1s CD:

the 1914 Navy Rank List shows Andersen attended--but did not graduate from--the Naval (Staff) Academy:

And there is his pal L?we, forever a few rows back in seniority. I think this is the only time they ever appeared on a single page.

[Bear]

Rick, is this the same L?we.

List of Iron Crosses 1st Class awarded for Jutland

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=30702

25. Kapit?nleutnant L?we, Axel

[Guest Rick Research]

Ayup. :cheers:

[Poison Dwarf]

Great work, gentlemen. Thanks very much for your time and effort.

[Paul C]

Anderson is listed in the Hildebrand/Lohmann book. I have the reprint for sale for $45.00

[Poison Dwarf]

Anderson is listed in the Hildebrand/Lohmann book. I have the reprint for sale for $45.00

Paul:

What is the Hildebrand/Lohmann book all about? The German histories are a bit out of my league.

Best,

Mark

[Guest Rick Research]

Career details for thousands of Kriegsmarine officers, including WW1 recalled types like him, with assignments, "invisible" promotions and where known, death dates as of the early 1960s. A classic for Kriegsmarine data and the only place to find such officer details. The amount of WORK this took back in the late 1950s sending letters back and forth, tracking down former naval officers and their next of kin is something google searching instant results folk cannot comprehend.

Nice clean format in modern typeface, easy to follow as this random example shows:

Herr Hildebrand was quite pleased that anyone was still interested after 45 years! The originals were sent out in sections with 3 ring binder punches by subscription, so finding complete originals is both virtually impossible and extremely expensive.