Single Bar "Busaco" MGS Medal to KGL Lt Poten

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is another mysterious single bar Military General Service Medal which has just passed through to be Epsonized on the Traveling Museum's wanderings.

Only 19 Busaco (27 September 1810) bars were awarded to the 7th Line Battalion, King's German Legion. Though three officers named Poten were wounded in action with the KGL in the Peninsula, Lieutenant Charles Poten here received only this single bar:

Charles Poten is not listed in John A. Hall's "The Biographical Dictionary of British Officers Killed and Wounded, 1808-1814."

[Guest Rick Research]

Note the original ribbon. The level of detail-- young Queen Victoria's robe showing its patterning--and the "kitty" sleeping at her feet.... just beautiful die work.

Charles Poten retired as an Oberstlieutenant in the Hannoverian army and died in 1858, so whatever happened to him after Busaco was not debilitating--physically or career-wise. He was transferred to the 8th Light Battalion during the war and perhaps simply just never saw action again?

[Ulsterman]

He was back in Spain in August 1812-April 1813. Then he was in the Netherlands. he may have been at Waterloo.

Further research shows he may have been with THE BRITISH ROCKET BATTERY at the battle of Leipzig.!!!! :speechless1:

[Bear]

The Power of Google Books

The King's German Legion (2) By Mike Chappell

page 7

http://books.google.com/books?id=d4DWMtVCa...SqCsGYvSM_fXmQE

'Present at the Battle of Leipzig was Lt. Charles Poten of the KGL's 7th Line Battalion. Poten had been with Halkett's Party, but had conducted a British rocket battery to the Grand Army in Saxony.'

[Bear]

The battle of Waterloo, also of Ligny and Quatre-Bras by John Booth

The link might not take you to the same page

Search Charles Poton

page 60

http://books.google.com/books?id=aPwTAAAAY...QE#PRA2-PA60,M1

8th Bat. of the Line

Lt. Col C. de Petersdorff, Comm.

Lt Charles Poton

'The 8th line battalion, KGL, under Lt. Col C. de Petersdorff, formed at the battle of waterloo the left wing of the 3d division of infantry. According to the position of the army, and of the principle points in the center, the right side of the high road from Brussels to Charlerio came to the defence of this battalion. The battalion under the command of Lt. Col C. de Petersdorff, pusued the enemy till late at night, when it joined the division of guards under the command of Major Gen. Sir J. Byng, on the road Jenappe. The Lt. Col. had a charger killed under him on the last repulsed attack which the enemy made on our center.'

Edited May 28, 2009 by Bear

[Bear]

History of the King's German legion By North Ludlow Beamish

http://books.google.com/books?id=Kv4GAAAAQ...zseoP#PPA600,M1

Search Charles Poton - Lots of stuff

page 203

Lt Charles Poten of the 7th line battalion, served with an english rocket battery at the battle of Leipzig, being the only officer of the legion present in that action. He had accompanied Lt. Col. Hugh Halkett to Mechlenburg in April, and was appointed in September to conduct the rocket battery to the grand army of Saxony.

Not sure what this mean

Page 600

Charles Poten, 10-17th July 1810 [P. 1810-11, N.G. 1813-1814, W.&C. 1815.] B.W.M. capt. h.p. at Eimbeck.

another

Charles Poten, 15th Sept. 1804, (H. 1805, B. 1807, M. 1808-14, P.* 1812-13, N. 1814, W.&C. 1815.) B.W.M. - H.W.C. captain Han. 10th line battalion.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Bear

[Ulsterman]

.....reading the RUSI cards (which have many mistakes in them) and the KGL history, Poten had an interesting career, entered 10th July 1810, served briefly as I said above in Spain, then being shipped off to Naples with another battalion and the 73rd...going to Northern Germany with Hackett , somehow being noted in the Netherlands in 1814 and with a notation for Waterloo. however, I only find the Poten of the 8th-a very different person, noted at Waterloo.

There was also an August Poten.

By the way Bear-Nafzigers' library is for sale.

[Bear]

I found four or five differnt Potens. I just looked up Charles.

Who/What is the Nafzigers' library?

[Guest Rick Research]

Wow guys-- about the only thing I've been able to figure out in this newly alien stuff so far is "h.p." equalled out on pension at "h-alf p-ay."

A rocketeer... or THE rocketeer, at The Battle of The Nations.

:cheers:

[Ulsterman]

Looks like you found the RUSI cards on-line. I have the old xeroxed edition (I am a member of RUSI since 1988 too).

Nafziger used to be the editor of Napoleon magazine. He privately publishes VERY in-depth orders of battle and lots of good reprints of obscure military recollections, esp. by old Napoleonic vets. he would LOVE to see the diary you just purchased.

I translate the Page 600 (actually officer #666 in Beamish) excerpt as the chap who had this medal.

Also, Beamish's comprehensive Kings German legion History listed (almost) all KGL officers in his 1837 book. An index of medals and campaigns, as well as short biographies is listed in the book.

The index of abbreviations is @ page 520 and is available on googlebooks, as Bear noted.

Poten enlisted/commissioned 10-17 July 1810, P.=Penninsula, N.G.=North Germany,N=Netherlands, W=Waterloo and C=1815 campaign.

I'm damned if I can figure out how he had a Waterloo medal. There is a Conrad Poten in the 1st hussars and I'd wager cash that the good Lt. was the son of the famous Ernst Poten of the Hussars. The 1st hussars were an elite unit and had a tremendous number of NCOs who got the Guelphic medal for various exploits.

The Peninsula cards often note a Waterloo medal, but my VERY old Traditions booklet doesn't have KGL.

BWM here means "Battle of Waterloo Medal". HWM=Hanover Waterloo medal.

For any of youse who'd like to follow along, do a google search on "Napoleonic Series" then click in the middle of the page on the "Peninsula Roll Call".

It is a VERY special medal, Werner Von Brauns' predecessor!!

There's also an anonymous Kings German Legion memories by one of the officers of the 7th on-line. It details at length the 7th's travels from Spain and the (re) occupation of Naples in 1813/14.

The 7th suffered terrible losses in a shipwreck.

[Guest Rick Research]

Right under my nose! I am still rummaging around in the late Eric Ludvigsen's library and just now encountered Ernst Blass's 1974 reprint of the former collection (published 1901) of Oberpostkassen Buchhalter aD August Finkam's collection, published in Hannover as "Die an Braunschweiger und Hannoveraner verliehenen Ehrenzeichen f?r Krieg, Verdienst und Dienstalter."

He reported a TOTAL of 1,230 GSMs to former members of the KGL-- of whom only 134 were officers. A total of only 253 of the total number of Medals had only a single bar.

Under Item 30s, formerly in his collection but not acquired by the city of Hannover before this 1901 publication date with at least two other medals in Finkam's collection--

SO: Provenance = Finkam Collection (pre-1901).

Somebody made Herr Finkam an offer he couldn't turn down-- and the city of Hanover couldn't match. Kind of puts our custody of "our" collections in perspective, doesn't it.

Where will "our" items be in 110 years? :catjava:

[Ulsterman]

Wicked cool.

Wicked!

I have a VERY old Military Modeling magazine article on the rockets at Leipzig buried somewhere in the attic upstairs.

Of more interest is whether Poten was at Waterloo and what he was doing there. 95 KGL officers were transferred to the Hanovarian line /landwehr regiments prior to the battle in the Spring of 1815. Poten is a PRIME candidate for that transfer, but also one is left wondering what the 7th btn. detachment was doing.

So many questions-fun to (try and) research though!!

[Detlev Niemann]

Good morning,

With great interest I see the MGS of this "Poten" in existence.

I do have the 2 Waterloo Medals to Capt. Ernst Poten and his younger brother Lt. Conrad Poten, so I would very much wish to reunite the family after so many years.

Maybe someone can point me to the owner of this MGS so I may get in touch with him ?

I would very much appriciate it.

yours

Detlev Niemann

[Guest Rick Research]

"Ernest" had his left arm amputated in 1811 yet remained on active duty!

[Detlev Niemann]

Ernst was a real fighting officer, his bravery,leading his squadron earned the "El Bodon" title, he also received the Army small gold medal, which most likely was melted down during the last 200 years. He is mentioned a lot in the Schaumann diarys "On the road with Wellington". He also had the honor position to ride ahead of the 1st Hussars parading before the Duke of Cumberland in Hannover following the Waterloo campaign....great history behind this family

regards

detlev

Dear Rick, do you have a clue who owns the MGS with single bar "Barrossa" ?

[Guest Rick Research]

Nope, haven't seen that yet... but that's the sort of reason to DO a Master List:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=37855

[Ulsterman]

There is a LOT more information about Ernst out there-for one thing he founded the KGL veteran's aid society and had quite an eventful social life.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Wow guys-- about the only thing I've been able to figure out in this newly alien stuff so far is "h.p." equalled out on pension at "h-alf p-ay."

A rocketeer... or THE rocketeer, at The Battle of The Nations.

Hello Rick:

The "h.p." per Beamish in his much detailed "History of The Kings German Legion" stands for Hanoverian Pension.

Congreve's rockets were not yet very effective. Mainly utilised on the continent they were soon discontinued but the fore runners of the ground to ground rockets ( Nebelwerfer, Stalin Organs and other Allied hardware)

Bernhard H. Holst

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello readers:

I have mentioned Beamish' "History of the Kings German Legion"before and A. Pfannkuche " Die Koenigliche Deutsche Legion" of 1910 give the following losses and strength data:

Of a total of 1,350 officers accepted in the Legion,which includes surgeons, pay-masters and vets 66 were killed in action, 39 died of wounds , 28 died in ship wrecks while 115 died of illness. Because of wounds or illness 88 were pensioned off. For various reasons 195 left the service.

44 including 15 surgeons transferred temporarily to the British Army.

The Hanoverian Army accepted 415 officers after the end of hostilities (which caused much dissatisfaction ) while 360 retired.

A grand total of 28,000 personnel were entered in the rolls of which a total of 5,600 died of all causes or 20%.

The strength from its formation in 1806 until 1811 was an average of 12,000 men. It rose to its greatest strength during 1812 of 14,175 men and still counted 10,442 at the end of 1815.

In 1866 there were still four officers on active service namely the War Minister, Gen. von Brandis, commissioned 1807 ( 7th Line Btl.),Gen. Pfannkuche commissioned 1810 (Arty), Gen.Gebser, commissioned 1814 (1st Hussars) and Gen. von Sichard , officer in the 2nd Line Btl. in 1815.

The last surviving officer was Hptm.a.D. Friedrich Scharnhorst who entered service as Ensign in 1813 in the 5th Line Btl. who died 80 years later.

Bernhard H. Holst

[Ulsterman]

With the utmost respect, rockets were probably more effective at long range bombardment than cannons-even 12 lbs.. there are accounts of single rockets exploding and whizzing about that routed entire cavalry French cavalry squadrons....veteran ones. They were wildly inaccurate sometimes, but terrifying.

[Guest Rick Research]

Shock and terror were certainly good applications, but I suspect the effect was the same regardless of which side was in the vicinity of rocket troops and THAT was their drawback at the time.

The casualty figures are just staggering, Bernhard. When we consider that virtually none of them ever got any version of a pension, and those "lucky" enough to survive amputations were doomed to a life of miserable poverty...

the handful who DID survive long enough to collect a Military General Service Medal 40+ years later is amazing.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello Rick:

I have somewhere in my disorganized library a book about many aspects of daily life in the KGL incl. pension matters. I will dig and report.

Bernhard H. Holst