Austria-Hungary Question for 1930's Austrian Army Ribbons

[jhodgson]

I am trying to reconstruct a logical ribbon bar for display with a named tunic for an Austrian. After the Anschluss, the officer served in the Wehrmacht during WWII but only his German awards are listed in his service file. I know from the wioth of the award loops, he must have had at least three other ribbons on his bar in addition to the German ribbons. His Father was a famous Col. from the First War so he may have had some higher peacetime awards. Here is a copy of his service in the Austrian Army and when he attended the Military Academy.

Thanks,

J

Edited July 5, 2009 by jhodgson

[Guest Rick Research]

Absolutely none at all, pre-Anschluss. He was only a cadet from 1934 until commissoned in 1938. His first award would have been a Wehrmacht 4 Years Medal from whenever they got around to processing his 1938/39 and anything else on there would have to be WW2, unless he had a March 1939 "Sudeten" Medal for Prague.

The answer to whether something exotic and foreign (Bulgarian, Romanian, Finnish....) was on there would be where his WW2 units might have served.

[jhodgson]

Absolutely none at all, pre-Anschluss. He was only a cadet from 1934 until commissoned in 1938. His first award would have been a Wehrmacht 4 Years Medal from whenever they got around to processing his 1938/39 and anything else on there would have to be WW2, unless he had a March 1939 "Sudeten" Medal for Prague.

The answer to whether something exotic and foreign (Bulgarian, Romanian, Finnish....) was on there would be where his WW2 units might have served.

Thanks, would his time in service with the Austrian Army count for WH long service or did the clock start when he transfered into the WH? I looked at his WWII assignments and the Anti-Communist medal is one option but the others are not as easy.

[jhodgson]

Absolutely none at all, pre-Anschluss. He was only a cadet from 1934 until commissoned in 1938. His first award would have been a Wehrmacht 4 Years Medal from whenever they got around to processing his 1938/39 and anything else on there would have to be WW2, unless he had a March 1939 "Sudeten" Medal for Prague.

The answer to whether something exotic and foreign (Bulgarian, Romanian, Finnish....) was on there would be where his WW2 units might have served.

Thanks, would his time in service with the Austrian Army count for WH long service or did the clock start when he transfered into the WH? I looked at his WWII assignments and the Anti-Communist medal is one option but the others are not as easy.

[jhodgson]

Absolutely none at all, pre-Anschluss. He was only a cadet from 1934 until commissoned in 1938. His first award would have been a Wehrmacht 4 Years Medal from whenever they got around to processing his 1938/39 and anything else on there would have to be WW2, unless he had a March 1939 "Sudeten" Medal for Prague.

The answer to whether something exotic and foreign (Bulgarian, Romanian, Finnish....) was on there would be where his WW2 units might have served.

Thanks, would his time in service with the Austrian Army count for WH long service or did the clock start when he transfered into the WH? I looked at his WWII assignments and the Anti-Communist medal is one option but the others are not as easy.

[jhodgson]

Thanks, would his time in service with the Austrian Army count for WH long service or did the clock start when he transfered into the WH? I looked at his WWII assignments and the Anti-Communist medal is one option but the others are not as easy.

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes. Oddly enough, holders of the enlisted 5 or 12 years Austrian 1st Republic Army Long Service Crosses kept wearing them until replaced completely by Wehrmacht pairs. Since the only window was 1938-39 before bestowals ceased for the duration and only career NCOs would have held one these crosses, there aren't many around.

Here's a bar to a career NCO with Wehrmacht 12 and Austrian 5--

The stripes are not accurate on the 5, but that's what this represents in that position, where it approximates the Wehrmacht 4 per post-Anschluss regulations. I've got a 25mm German single ribbon bar for a 5 someplace, with perfectly proportioned narrow stripes.

[jhodgson]

This was all I could come up with on a new Bar I had made, the pin length/catch does not fit the loops well and I believe there may have been one more award.

[Gordon Craig]

Rick,

Very nice ribbon bar. Good reference for my Austrian collection.

jhodgson,

Interesting to see this man's service record. He appears to have joined the Austrian armed forces as an enlisted man and then attended the Maria Theresa Militay Academy which was fairly common then and still is today.

Regards,

Gordon

[jhodgson]

His Father was Oberst Ottocar Freiherr von Proch?zka, the Son Robert was a Nebelwerfer Officer and Knights Cross holder. He is still reportedly alive at 93.

[Guest Rick Research]

You really need his service record, or photo of him in one of the Ritterkreuz books. I can virtually guarantee you that no young frontline officer would have received a KVK2X, and the odds of a recently Anschlussed ex-Austrian turning up for the Memel (naval personnel and local east Prussian army troops) would be nil unless you know he'd been posted there 1938/39.

Something to consider is that he may well have worn the wider 25mm sized ribbons for fewer awards, rather than the typical 15mm ones.

[jhodgson]

You really need his service record, or photo of him in one of the Ritterkreuz books. I can virtually guarantee you that no young frontline officer would have received a KVK2X, and the odds of a recently Anschlussed ex-Austrian turning up for the Memel (naval personnel and local east Prussian army troops) would be nil unless you know he'd been posted there 1938/39.

Something to consider is that he may well have worn the wider 25mm sized ribbons for fewer awards, rather than the typical 15mm ones.

I have his complete service record from NARA and they only list a GAB, WB, both EKs, Ost and later the RK. In my experience with records this is fairly normal and it is rare to see KVKs listed or Flower War awards although many Frontline combat officers were awarded them as is evident from photos. Sadly the only photos I have of Richard FvP. do not show the bar or the riddle would be ended. 8 ribbons fit on there nicely at 15mm and 5 in the larger size. I neither made the bar nor directed which ribbons should be on there.

Edited July 7, 2009 by jhodgson

[Guest Rick Research]

What is the mm span to the outside of both outermost loops?

[jhodgson]

What is the mm span to the outside of both outermost loops?

It is 95mm from end to end when the jacket is laid flat. I read his record and he had HQ and Rear assignements teaching etc. until 1942 when he recieved the EKII. I think the KVKIIX is plausible for him but agree the Memel award is very unlikely (ie. impossible unless he flew in with Hanna Reitsch and Ritter von Greimfor the weekend etc.). This is the only picture I can find of him probably cropped after the War above the breast eagle.

[Guest Rick Research]

95mm doesn't come out to any commercial size backing at 15mm or 25mm width ribbons. He must have had double folded ribbons in the South German style, custom fitted. Probably 5 ribbons for such a tailor made and hand fitted bar.

[jhodgson]

95mm doesn't come out to any commercial size backing at 15mm or 25mm width ribbons. He must have had double folded ribbons in the South German style, custom fitted. Probably 5 ribbons for such a tailor made and hand fitted bar.

Thanks. I have a friend looking for another photo and I am writing the family with a picture of the tunic. They may not answer and I know they have been bombarded by autograph requests as he is one of the last living RKTs now. I will use University letterhead to try and seperate myself from the "RKTS are neato, tell me how you knifed an Ivan in the forehead" crowd. :jumping:

Edited July 7, 2009 by jhodgson