Belgium Order Of The Crown Ribbon Device

[TacHel]

Are these swords actually OK?

If so, what do they mean?

[Tim B]

Hello Francois,

The crossed swords simply mean that the award was given to a WWI veteran. Keep in mind that the award is one of the long service type awards and is given at different stages. So this Order was more than likely presented well after WWI, just to a WWI veteran.

The swords appear to be the correct style and color (silver), but should be pointed upward vice down.

FYI, there is more information under the recent "Questions on Orders of Leopolds" thread concerning the swords and variations. Here's mine:

Regards,

Tim

Edited August 3, 2009 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Francois,

I do not know how to date these Orders of the Crown and have only heard that the enamel is different. I have noticed that some have a recessed pattern under the blue enamel, while others appear plain. I have seen slightly different tints to the blue, but am not sure if that is attributed to the PICS or actually are different shades depending on manufacturer or date of manufacture.

I do see one difference between the suspension of mine and the one you show. Perhaps someone can chime in with more information?

Tim

[TacHel]

Thanks for the info! Very much appreciated. You beat me to the punch, my next question was going to be "why are the swords pointing down?". They are now pointing up.

As for the difference in suspension, there's another difference I've just noticed...

On mine, the bend on the lower suspension goes backwards to hide the seem. See pic below. On yours, oddly enough, the seem is visible at the front... Could yours be mounted backwards? I'm just suggesting this due to the fact it makes no sense to show joints when you don't have to...

[Tim B]

Hi Francois,

I had asked that very question in the other "Question on Leopold" thread. I have noticed others for sale that were like that as well, so I don't know the answer. I agree, it would seem obvious to place the seam towards the reverse. Unfortuantely, the only way I could "correct" it would be to open the seam a bit and switch the actual medal around, then rotate the ribbon. Seems thick enough that I probably wouldn't break it; hopefully. I was kind of waiting to hear something first as if this was normal (happens), then I would leave it alone.

Tim

[Gldank]

Hi Francois,

I had asked that very question in the other "Question on Leopold" thread. I have noticed others for sale that were like that as well, so I don't know the answer. I agree, it would seem obvious to place the seam towards the reverse. Unfortuantely, the only way I could "correct" it would be to open the seam a bit and switch the actual medal around, then rotate the ribbon. Seems thick enough that I probably wouldn't break it; hopefully. I was kind of waiting to hear something first as if this was normal (happens), then I would leave it alone.

Tim

They both look fine and I would attribute the differences to seperate manufactures as there were many throughout the turn of the century up to now. Do not open the seam to turn it around as these orders are casted and you could run the risk of breaking or cracking it. As it looks now, so it should stay. Well, my opinion anyway.

[TacHel]

I was going to give you the same advice. When you mentioned opening it to flip the medal I could imagine gilding flaking off and pieces breaking off and a chill ran down my back. Best leave it as it is.

[Tim B]

Thanks guys, my take on it as well.

James, I did not know these were cast and that makes a world of difference as cast items tend not to bend and have the high probability of cracking or completely breaking off as you stated. I wouldn't need to move it much to get the star out, but then I would want to close it back up after the switch and.... I would be really P***** off at myself if I screwed it up, especially seeing it is in such nice shape and cased to boot!

I can live with it as is; it's nice!

So, do we have any further information or examples to look at that show the differences in regards to timelines or dates of manufacture? Enamel, suspension differences??

Tim :beer:

[Gldank]

I do not have a lot of info on manufactures but here are some samples of hinged areas.

[Gldank]

More

[TacHel]

WOW! Look at all those doodads on the ribbons! Magnificent!

Thank you! :cheers:

[TacHel]

Questions:

1- The central gold stripe on the ribbons, are those for heroic acts during war?

2- The 2 crosses at far left, are their centers black?

Edited August 6, 2009 by TacHel

[Tim B]

Questions:

1- The central gold stripe on the ribbons, are those for heroic acts during war?

2- The 2 crosses at far left, are their centers black?

Francois,

1) The center gold stripe on Belgian orders were for civilians that distingushed themselves during wartime.

2) I think the centers are blue, but probably a really deep or darker blue.

Tim

[Gldank]

2 Gold stripes for exceptional services in war.

1 Gold stripe for special services during war.

The two crosses on the far left are dark blue (navy blue) not quite black.

Awarded to Belgians as well as foreigners who distinguished themselves for artistic, literary or scientific service in the commercial or industrial field or for long service to Belgium or Africa. The same ribbon emblems or ribbon variations as used with the Leopold I Order have been instituted for this Order as well. "Lower" ranks (military, public servants or civilians) are awarded Palms. The gilded palm bar on the ribbon shows that a lower award (palm) was recalled for the awarding of the higher cross order.

My personal favorate:

Edited August 6, 2009 by Gldank

[TacHel]

So a Palm on this Order (and on the Order of Leopold) basically means a promotion within the Order, right?

[Gldank]

So a Palm on this Order (and on the Order of Leopold) basically means a promotion within the Order, right?

Yes

[TacHel]

Well, as long as I have you on line.

What about those "candy striped" bars on crosses 2 and 3?

[Tim B]

Here's a example of the enamel differences; the one on top is mine (pictured above) and the bottom is another medal that I see being offered. Note the background pattern.

Tim

[Tim B]

So a Palm on this Order (and on the Order of Leopold) basically means a promotion within the Order, right?

I guess I am going to have to review the palms again. I thought the palms on orders were for recognition (mentions in dispatches) during wartime? Or is that only for the Croix de Guerre?

I ask as I am getting ready to replace a palm on my Order of Leopold (Officer) and have got a gilt Albert palm on hold for me.

Tim

[Gldank]

Well, as long as I have you on line.

What about those "candy striped" bars on crosses 2 and 3?

Agin, an upgrade from the palm to a higher order...

[Gldank]

Here's a example of the enamel differences; the one on top is mine (pictured above) and the bottom is another medal that I see being offered. Note the background pattern.

Tim

Different manufactures...

[Gldank]

I guess I am going to have to review the palms again. I thought the palms on orders were for recognition (mentions in dispatches) during wartime? Or is that only for the Croix de Guerre?

I ask as I am getting ready to replace a palm on my Order of Leopold (Officer) and have got a gilt Albert palm on hold for me.

Tim

No, I misunderstood you. I was talking about the candy striped palm bars. You remain correct on the long palm leaf!! Now, it is my turn to

Edited August 6, 2009 by Gldank

[TacHel]

Ooooooooooooooooh!

The bar (ribbon device) denotes a promotion within the Order from the ribbon mounted palms (below the medal in the Order's hierarchy).

But the Palm "ribbon device" on the ribbon is for acts in war time.

OK... I was confused also. Same word, different meanings.

Thank you very much! I appreciate this. I am new to Belgian awards, I have about 2 dozen I picked up over the years here and there without really knowing what they were.

[Gldank]

Ooooooooooooooooh!

The bar (ribbon device) denotes a promotion within the Order from the ribbon mounted palms (below the medal in the Order's hierarchy).

But the Palm "ribbon device" on the ribbon is for acts in war time.

OK... I was confused also. Same word, different meanings.

Thank you very much! I appreciate this. I am new to Belgian awards, I have about 2 dozen I picked up over the years here and there without really knowing what they were.

[Gldank]

Glad to help where I can. I have been collecting Belgian for 10 years and am still learning.