Prince Carol

[Yankee]

Before he became Carol l Romania.

Must have been a Prussian by the high

ranking royal house orders.

[Guest Rick Research]

Carl Prinz von Hohenzollern was born in Sigmaringen in 1839, son of Prince Carl Anton von Hohenzollern and Josephine Prinzessin von Baden.

The family dynastic ties between the Catholic House of Hohenzollern and the Romanian monarchy remained until the Communist take over at the end of WW2.

Despite ties of blood and marriage the Romanian Hohenzollerns did their duty-- joining the Allied side in WW1 (and having the country overrun) and then "learning" from that to join the Axis side in WW2 (and having the country overrun). Despite these wartime overrides of family loyalties, relations between the two branches of the family remained cordial

unlike the British royal family, which shed any link to their German cousins with unseemly "patriotic" fervor that--in the end-- only made things far, far worse in post 1918 Germany.

The Catholic Hohenzollerns knew better, but history is an implacable force. Caught between Germany and Russia....

[James Hoard]

Carl Prinz von Hohenzollern was born in Sigmaringen in 1839, son of Prince Carl Anton von Hohenzollern and Josephine Prinzessin von Baden.

The family dynastic ties between the Catholic House of Hohenzollern and the Romanian monarchy remained until the Communist take over at the end of WW2.

Despite ties of blood and marriage the Romanian Hohenzollerns did their duty-- joining the Allied side in WW1 (and having the country overrun) and then "learning" from that to join the Axis side in WW2 (and having the country overrun). Despite these wartime overrides of family loyalties, relations between the two branches of the family remained cordial

unlike the British royal family, which shed any link to their German cousins with unseemly "patriotic" fervor that--in the end-- only made things far, far worse in post 1918 Germany.

The Catholic Hohenzollerns knew better, but history is an implacable force. Caught between Germany and Russia....

Not sure how "cordial" exactly. Kaiser Bill had King Ferdinand I's name erased and expunged from the Hohenzollern family register.

James

[Carol I]

Must have been a Prussian by the high ranking royal house orders.

As a German officer he took part in the war with Denmark in 1864. His brother Anton died in the Austro-Prussian war of 1866.

[Yankee]

How is it only a German Prince would be invited to a foreign throne? I see this happened in Bulgaria, Belgium, Albania, Romania, Greece & sure others too. Why nobody from Russia surely they had as much political and military clout.

He is wearing the order of Bene Merenti just how would it differ from the Romanian issued or are they identical.

Thanks Yankee

[Carol I]

How is it only a German Prince would be invited to a foreign throne? I see this happened in Bulgaria, Belgium, Albania, Romania, Greece & sure others too. Why nobody from Russia surely they had as much political and military clout.

I can only speak about Romania. Romanian politicians were worried about the expansionist policy of Russia (only 54 years before, in 1812 Russia annexed the eastern part of the Romanian principality of Moldova/Moldavia and subjected it to a very intensive russification process - that region is nowadays the Republic of Moldova), so Russian princes were out of question. Similarly, Austria had its own agenda and interferred in the politics of the principalities for years and consequently Austrian princes were not seen as suitable candidates either. There is a story that Carol was not the first choice and that a Belgian prince was approached for the throne of Romania, but he refused in the hope that he will be offered the Spanish throne. Also, the story goes that Carol was suggested to the Romanian politicians by none other than Napoleon III as there were some family relations between their families.

He is wearing the order of Bene Merenti just how would it differ from the Romanian issued or are they identical.

The dynastic orders of the Romanian Hohenzollern family, Bene Merenti included, are somewhat enigmatic. In the 1930s, Carol II "took over" many of the Hohenzollern family orders and made them Romanian orders. They could therefore be regarded as some sort of continuation of the old orders.

[Carol I]

Not sure how "cordial" exactly. Kaiser Bill had King Ferdinand I's name erased and expunged from the Hohenzollern family register.

I heard this stoy as well, but the relations must have improved later as I remember seeing a photo of King Ferdinand and Queen Maria at a Hohenzollern family reunion in Germany in the 1920s.

[Yankee]

I can only speak about Romania. Romanian politicians were worried about the expansionist policy of Russia (only 54 years before, in 1812 Russia annexed the eastern part of the Romanian principality of Moldova/Moldavia and subjected it to a very intensive russification process - that region is nowadays the Republic of Moldova), so Russian princes were out of question. Similarly, Austria had its own agenda and interferred in the politics of the principalities for years and consequently Austrian princes were not seen as suitable candidates either. There is a story that Carol was not the first choice and that a Belgian prince was approached for the throne of Romania, but he refused in the hope that he will be offered the Spanish throne. Also, the story goes that Carol was suggested to the Romanian politicians by none other than Napoleon III as there were some family relations between their families.

The dynastic orders of the Romanian Hohenzollern family, Bene Merenti included, are somewhat enigmatic. In the 1930s, Carol II "took over" many of the Hohenzollern family orders and made them Romanian orders. They could therefore be regarded as some sort of continuation of the old orders.

Hi Carol I

Thanks for explaining my question in detail. That argument would make sence as well for Bulgaria & Greece. As it turned out the Russians did do that a hundred years later ( post World War 2 )right into the heart of Germany. Big mistake the Belgian Prince made by dismissing Romania in hopes for a larger crown. Well good for Carol I his gain & the Belgian's loss. The country is absolutely beautiful. Carol I was smart enough to side with the allies & double the size of his country.

I suppose the early German made Bene Merenti would be hallmarked and possibly gold. Other then that they seem to be identical. You seldom come across a Honenzollern issued example.

[Carol I]

Thanks for explaining my question in detail. That argument would make sence as well for Bulgaria & Greece. As it turned out the Russians did do that a hundred years later ( post World War 2 )right into the heart of Germany. Big mistake the Belgian Prince made by dismissing Romania in hopes for a larger crown. Well good for Carol I his gain & the Belgian's loss. The country is absolutely beautiful.

You're welcome. I hope the Bulgarian, Greek and Albanian members of the forum would give the motives of the choices of their countries. The Romanian mistrust into the Russians was unfortunately confirmed during the Independence War of 1877-1878 and later and it led to a top secret alliance with the Central Powers of mutual assistance in case of attack (Russia was not mentioned, but it was the only power who could attack any of the countries in the treaty). In fact it was this clause of the treaty that allowed Romania to remain neutral in 1914 (like Italy): it was Austria who attacked Serbia and not viceversa, so Romania did not have to provide assistance on Austria's side (but we digress).

Carol I was smart enough to side with the allies & double the size of his country.

Actually, it was his nephew and successor, King Ferdinand who ruled the country when Romania entered the war in 1916. Carol I advocated the alliance with Germany (and indirectly with Austria) and was very disappointed that the politicians wanted neutrality at that time. It is even said that their decision not to enter the war to support Germany broke his heart and led to his physical death later in 1914. Nevertheless he respected their decision, so it could truly be said that he served his country to the very end.

[James Hoard]

I heard this stoy as well, but the relations must have improved later as I remember seeing a photo of King Ferdinand and Queen Maria at a Hohenzollern family reunion in Germany in the 1920s.

If it was within Germany in the 1920's it was certainly minus the Kaiser, the Crown Prince and several senior Hohenzollern Princes, since they were persona non gratia at the time. The Kaiser lived in exile in Holland after 1918 and never again set foot in Germany.

Cheers,

James

[Carol I]

If it was within Germany in the 1920's it was certainly minus the Kaiser, the Crown Prince and several senior Hohenzollern Princes, since they were persona non gratia at the time. The Kaiser lived in exile in Holland after 1918 and never again set foot in Germany.

It was the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen family of Ferdinand (the princely Hohenzollerns). Unfortunately I could not find the photo again, but I think that Ferdinand's brother, Wilhelm, was present.

[Yankee]

You're welcome. I hope the Bulgarian, Greek and Albanian members of the forum would give the motives of the choices of their countries. The Romanian mistrust into the Russians was unfortunately confirmed during the Independence War of 1877-1878 and later and it led to a top secret alliance with the Central Powers of mutual assistance in case of attack (Russia was not mentioned, but it was the only power who could attack any of the countries in the treaty). In fact it was this clause of the treaty that allowed Romania to remain neutral in 1914 (like Italy): it was Austria who attacked Serbia and not viceversa, so Romania did not have to provide assistance on Austria's side (but we digress).

Actually, it was his nephew and successor, King Ferdinand who ruled the country when Romania entered the war in 1916. Carol I advocated the alliance with Germany (and indirectly with Austria) and was very disappointed that the politicians wanted neutrality at that time. It is even said that their decision not to enter the war to support Germany broke his heart and led to his physical death later in 1914. Nevertheless he respected their decision, so it could truly be said that he served his country to the very end.

Had no idea that King Carol I wanted to join the Central Powers not so sure if that would have changed the outcome of the war. As I understand he had a difficult relationship with the wife of his nephew who was later to become Queen Marie. Carol I seemed to be a very kind generous man to have built the couple a castle in Sinaia only a rocks throw away from Peles. Sad the King had lived only a few months after the completion of Peles that had started 39 years earlier. Losing a brother to war, a daughter his only child at such a young age. His life seemed a bit tragic.

[Yankee]

Here he wears the Prussian Hohenzollern

Order with collar.

[Carol I]

This photo, from Wikipedia, shows King Carol I wearing the Prussian Pour le Merite Order, the Russian Order of St. George, the collar of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern and the Austrian Order of the Golden Fleece. He also has a Honor Cross with Swords of the Princely House Order of Hohenzollern on his chest and a Knight's Cross with Swords of the House Order of Hohenzollern on his medal bar.