A question on rank and number

[Dieter3]

First one is a Sino-Japan War medal document, showing a rank of "Army Minister of State" (or so I'm told) - QUESTION: What exactly was an army minister of state, or is there a more accurate translation? Was this a common rank/assignment?

Second one is a Russo-Japan War medal document with what I call the more "interesting" style of kanji numbering - so this one shows # 1,022,153 - were there really that many awards issued, or am I reading the number incorrectly? And why the switching back and forth between this type of kanji for numbers and the more common variety?

[Paul L Murphy]

The "rank" of Rikugun Daijin is not a rank, it is the title of the Army Minister and was a government post. Japan had a Naval Minister and an Army Minister as members of the government cabinet. They are basically the awarding authority for many of the campaign medals.

You read the number correctly. No idea the logic behind the different number style. The highest number I have seen on a 1894-95 certificate is 253,508 and the highest on the 1904-05 certificate is 1,262,963 so there were a lot of them awarded.

[Dieter3]

Thanks Paul! So, I'm guessing the ministers were many, this is not a single person that served in the position (not like Secretary of the Army, etc. here in the U.S., not sure what the U.K. equivalent would be?). Am I correct in my guess?

[Paul L Murphy]

Not so, the role was the same as the Secretary for Defense in US. The government only had one Army Minister and one Navy Minister at any particular time. They were normally retired generals and admirals respectively. The recipient of your medal is not the minister, the medal is awarded in his name.

[Dieter3]

Hmmm. I'll have to re-examine the document for the rank of the recipient! Thanks for pointing that out, I thought it somewhat odd to award a person like this the medal. Therein lies the problem of having to use a third party translate sometimes old kanji, and often unfamiliar technical terms - stuff gets lost in the translation! :speechless:

[Paul L Murphy]

Post a picture of the full document here and I will let you know the details of the recipient. :cheers:

[Dieter3]

I've got it! After another review of the document and paying better attention, the recipient was a: 陸軍歩兵一等軍曹 - Platoon Seargent. I'ze wuz confoosed before......:blush:

[Paul L Murphy]

I've got it! After another review of the document and paying better attention, the recipient was a: 陸軍歩兵一等軍曹 - Platoon Seargent. I'ze wuz confoosed before......

Army Infantry 1st Class Sergeant is the literal translation. The good thing about Meiji era certs is that they give the corps of the recipient as well as the rank.

[Dieter3]

At some point, I'd like to translate all of the documents that I have, but that's a piece of work, and it really wears out my poor wife! I'm trying to inventory everything, recording certain bits of main data.

Here's another name for you, any idea on the pronunciation possibilities? Family name, possibly "Yano"?

[Paul L Murphy]

At some point, I'd like to translate all of the documents that I have, but that's a piece of work, and it really wears out my poor wife! I'm trying to inventory everything, recording certain bits of main data.

Here's another name for you, any idea on the pronunciation possibilities? Family name, possibly "Yano"?

Yano is the most likely family name. I hate translating Japanese given names so I also normally ask my wife, apart from the common ones, since the pronounciation used is so individualistic. It takes a fiendish mind to design a language where one character can be pronounced up to 8 or 9 ways depending on where it finds itself and in a totally arbitrary manner !

Yano is a full 7th class order of honour, which means if he is in the army he is a captain.

Regards,

Paul

Edited September 2, 2009 by Paul L Murphy

[Dieter3]

Thanks Paul. This is a Taisho Enthronement document, and we couldn't see a reference to an actual military rank or branch of service - but the 7th class order of honor indicates that? Is there any good reference to this type of info? (unless I actually see the kanji for Captain, I'm working in the realm of cluelessness......!)