From headgear, but not sure what it is called!

[rusticalex]

I'm really showing my lack of knowledge here! I can tell that this comes from headgear of some kind, but I'm not sure what it is called. Also, please can you help identify the regiment it belonged to, the age, and any other info.

Many thanks

Alex

[Graham Stewart]

Plume holder - probably from a cavalry helemt i.e Household Cavalry/Dragoon pattern.

[Jeff Mc William]

I'm really showing my lack of knowledge here! I can tell that this comes from headgear of some kind, but I'm not sure what it is called. Also, please can you help identify the regiment it belonged to, the age, and any other info.

Many thanks

Alex

Hi Alex. Me again. First of all, your item is upside down ! It is a Victorian Officer's Ball plume (or tuft) holder. It was used on a number of British Army Shakos from 1837 to 1878. I cannot date yours precisely, but would guess it is a later pattern. Regards Jeff

Edited November 18, 2009 by Jeff Mc William

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Alex. Me again. First of all, your item is upside down ! It is a Victorian Officer's Ball plume (or tuft) holder. It was used on a number of British Army Shakos from 1837 to 1878. I cannot date yours precisely, but would guess it is a later pattern. Regards Jeff

Hi (again) Alex. I have now been able to date your plume holder more accurately, ie ; 1869 to 1878.

Prior to this, the gilt ball at the base was plain. The VR cypher was added in 1869, and the shako was replaced by the helmet in 1878.

Regards. Jeff

PS: By the way, this was a "universal" pattern for all shakos, so it cannot be attributed to any particular regiment.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Jeff Mc William

[Mervyn Mitton]

Jeff - if it is intended to hold the tuft, that would put the Royal Cypher upside down ?

[Jeff Mc William]

Jeff - if it is intended to hold the tuft, that would put the Royal Cypher upside down ?

Hi Mervyn. These "reversed & entwined" scroll cyphers can be very confusing I know, but I have to disagree with you here I'm afraid :

If you download Alex's image and spin it round 180 degrees, you will find the VR cypher is correctly aligned.

I hope this next picture shows it a bit clearer than the last, but I am limited to 70K pics on this site. Regards. Jeff

[Mervyn Mitton]

O.K. - Jeff. I concede that you are right - hurry and get more posts on - then the pictures will be visible.... Mervyn

Do you collect helmets ?

[Jeff Mc William]

O.K. - Jeff. I concede that you are right - hurry and get more posts on - then the pictures will be visible.... Mervyn

Do you collect helmets ?

Thanks Mervyn. Yes, I know my pics are a bit "duff" but 70K is not much to work with..especially when I see some of the other splendid pics on this site ! Sorry, no I don't collect any more..poor pensioner, can't afford to ! But I still enjoy my research work and am always willing to pass on my knowledge (such as it is). Best wishes. Jeff

[Mervyn Mitton]

I know what you mean - perhaps we'll get an increase with the next Government.

[rusticalex]

Thanks guys...cracking debate on which way up it should be, and now I am home I can confirm, with it in hand, just how right Jeff is, and how naive I was to photograph it the wrong way up!! Not that I mind...I'm learning all the time, so thanks for all the education! What a fascinating subject this is.

It is great that I'm now starting to fit some of my items (although not this holder yet) to particular relatives. What I want to do is create a post for each relative with the items that belonged to him and other info, just to share on here. I'm not quite sure where I should put such posts, but I'll figure it out, I'm sure!

Thanks again.

Alex

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Alex. Not sure if anyone welcomed you to GMIC - you've rocketed up in numbers with all your interesting items - so it may have been overlooked. You say you now have an incentive to collect - I'm not surprised, you're family have been very good to you. I always tell new collectors - ' go home and loot your family ' - it's amazing what people have tucked away in cupboards. The important thing is to research as much as possible and always keep records - for so many collectors it just becomes a numbers game. Reference material is also very important and if you are going to concentrate on badges, then get a good ref. book. Kipling and King - two volumes, are regarded as the main books on badges - however, they cost well over £100 - so you may settle for Wilkinson, who is still a well illustrated book.

You have asked about prices, however, many of our members are collectors and not in the commercial world. I will always help where possible, or, you can try looking on the web. Values are important for insurance purposes - don't assume that you are covered under your household insurance - when values start to rise they often ask for a list and values and expect you to take separate cover.

Best wishes and keep posting.

[rusticalex]

Hi - Alex. Not sure if anyone welcomed you to GMIC - you've rocketed up in numbers with all your interesting items - so it may have been overlooked. You say you now have an incentive to collect - I'm not surprised, you're family have been very good to you. I always tell new collectors - ' go home and loot your family ' - it's amazing what people have tucked away in cupboards. The important thing is to research as much as possible and always keep records - for so many collectors it just becomes a numbers game. Reference material is also very important and if you are going to concentrate on badges, then get a good ref. book. Kipling and King - two volumes, are regarded as the main books on badges - however, they cost well over £100 - so you may settle for Wilkinson, who is still a well illustrated book.

You have asked about prices, however, many of our members are collectors and not in the commercial world. I will always help where possible, or, you can try looking on the web. Values are important for insurance purposes - don't assume that you are covered under your household insurance - when values start to rise they often ask for a list and values and expect you to take separate cover.

Best wishes and keep posting.

Hi Mervyn

Thank you for the nice greeting...it is great being on here, and learning so much from so many knowledgeable people. My incentive is actually to preserve what my family is lucky enough to have, to put some order to it, and to find out much more about who did what, what belongs to whom, and to share it with people who are interested. Which is where this forum is so great! I have already started 'looting' the family, which is actually going down very well as I am being able to educate them as well as myself. My post on Dudley Lambert - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=40891 - is what I intend to do for other family members, so that is a a great way of forming a record.

What I am finding interesting is just how very broad this area is and just how much militaria exists. It appears to be a 'hobby' that could last a lifetime!

Cheers

Alex

[Graham Stewart]

Thanks to Jeff for putting me right on this item as I didn't realise it was upside down and thought it sat on the top of something.