lilo Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Hi All, I would like to have your help to try to understand what Order (and in which class), if any at all, an Italian Admiral received with the below document : who can help ? Thanks in advance Regards Lilo Edited November 22, 2009 by lilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 This is a document awarding him a gold cup (most likely a presentation silver gilt sake cup), not an order or medal. However the way his name is written suggests that he has previously been awarded the 3rd class of either the Sacred Treasure or the Rising Sun (but that will be a different document). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilo Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 This is a document awarding him a gold cup (most likely a presentation silver gilt sake cup), not an order or medal. However the way his name is written suggests that he has previously been awarded the 3rd class of either the Sacred Treasure or the Rising Sun (but that will be a different document). Hi PAul, Many Thanks for your help ! Regards Lilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilo Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Hi again Paul, From the above document is it possible to say that he received BOTH the Rising Sun and the Sacred Treasure Orders ? I would affirm this reading also an article taken from the 'Osaka Mainiki' newspaper, English daily edition. 28 july 1922 - see below attachment, in which it is clearly stated that this Admiral had both the Rising Sun and the Sacred Treasure Orders. Is it possible to exactly establish what classes for each Order He received and when ? As an aside, He was a Military Observer of the Russo- Japanese War 1904-1905 and a Naval Attachè in Tokio embassy (May 1904 - April 1906). He received the Japan, Russo- Japanese War medal 1904-05. Can you answer to my 2 questions ? Regards Lilo Edited November 23, 2009 by lilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 It is entirely possible that he had both Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure. Basically the Japanese title says that he is a holder of the 3rd class order of merit. This is used to describe somebody who has a 3rd class Sacred Treasure or a 3rd Class Rising Sun. If he had both awards it would still say the same thing. Also if he had a third class of one, and a lower class of the other it would still only refer to his third class. Hence the only thing we can say for definite looking at the way his name is written on the document you showed is that he had at least one 3rd class award. We can also say that he definitely did not have anything higher than 3rd class from Japan, otherwise that would be the class of order of merit mentioned. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilo Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) It is entirely possible that he had both Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure. Basically the Japanese title says that he is a holder of the 3rd class order of merit. This is used to describe somebody who has a 3rd class Sacred Treasure or a 3rd Class Rising Sun. If he had both awards it would still say the same thing. Also if he had a third class of one, and a lower class of the other it would still only refer to his third class. Hence the only thing we can say for definite looking at the way his name is written on the document you showed is that he had at least one 3rd class award. We can also say that he definitely did not have anything higher than 3rd class from Japan, otherwise that would be the class of order of merit mentioned. I hope this helps. Hi Paul, many thanks for such detailed explanation. I checked the possible military rank he held in the period 1904-1906 and He was a Tenente di Vascello (till up to 1911) in the Royal Italian Navy. This rank is the corresponding rank of Captain in the army. Is the rank Tenente di Vascello (= Captain) the correct rank to receive a 3rd class Japanese Order ? Thank you Regards Lilo Edited November 24, 2009 by lilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 In the Japanese army a 3rd class award would normally have gone to about a colonel. I have seen awards to foreign majors and Lt Colonels of the 3rd class but if he got it as a captain then it must have been something very significant that he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilo Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 In the Japanese army a 3rd class award would normally have gone to about a colonel. I have seen awards to foreign majors and Lt Colonels of the 3rd class but if he got it as a captain then it must have been something very significant that he did. Hi PAul, Many Thanks Regards Lilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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