Phil Steele Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Peter that close up of the bare shield whilst it has a lot of Duemer characteristics is in my opinion different. What do you think or am I just seeing things here. Phil
Peter BL Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 Peter that close up of the bare shield whilst it has a lot of Duemer characteristics is in my opinion different. What do you think or am I just seeing things here. Phil Hi Phil....Well, I posted the shield without taking much of a look at it. It's certainly not an original shield let alone a Deumer. Well spotted..I'm just flogging myself as we speak.... Best...Peter
Tim B Posted January 26, 2010 Author Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Hi guys, Well spotted Phil! Coastline is definately sharp in the cuts and have extra details that I normally do not see on authentic Deumers. I was also suspicious with the pin sockets on the reverse. What's the thoughts here, a Deumer copy? No die flaw either!! Tim Edited January 26, 2010 by Tim B
Peter BL Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Hi guys, Well spotted Phil! Coastline is definately sharp in the cuts and have extra details that I normally do not see on authentic Deumers. I was also suspicious with the pin sockets on the reverse. What's the thoughts here, a Deumer copy? No die flaw either!! Tim Definitely a Deumer copy Tim...the details are almost exaggerated compared to the original. Peter
Phil Steele Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Hmmmm very interesting. Andrei do you know what the shield is made from...and is it magnetic. The way I see it there are a number of choices here. 1. The shield is an out and out fake but if that was the case how come you guys have never seen this design before. I maybe wrong here but if I was going to go to the trouble and expense of faking something then I would want a good return which means plenty of examples out there. 2. The shield is genuine and from a maker not known. All Krim shields share some characteristics but I dont believe for a minute that this is a Deumer shield (ie yet another different die). I am not sure which way to go on this shield yet. I want to know what it is made from for a start. Tim I have seen this style of pin mounting before on other items of TR such as hat eagles and items like that so I dont really see a problem with this although I must admit I have yet to see that on a shield but maybe this is a first. I dont like the sharpe angles seen on the land shape. I have never seen this before and every shield listed and shown that I have looked at all have softer rounder detail. I think Andrei has added some new life into this thread Tim. I would like to hear Pascal's or even Filips opinion on this shield...... Phil
Tim B Posted January 26, 2010 Author Posted January 26, 2010 No, I believe the shield to be a copy Phil as the details are too sharp IMO. We hear about these laser-cut dies on badges now and it's possible this is a new one. I have seen examples (copies) in the past that have these really sharp ridgelines but not a Deumer style examples. It would be interesting to know what material this one is made from. Tim
Phil Steele Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 As I said Tim I could go either way. You dont happen to have any pics of these Laser copies do you. I must admit I was taken back by the sharp ridges/angles and cant say I have ever seen that on any shield. Phil
tiff Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Hello gents Peter thanks for fotos Im sure that this shield is original . Several years ago I started сollected shields .I bought this shield one ears ago. The same like you I never seen that before.I started to search the information about him. Schield made from zinc and more heavy than the athers. For all this years that i been searching I found only 3 the same shields. One of them I have. second has my collega ,he bought it from Detlev N .and the third was found in the ground in Russia in citi Kaliningrad -ex Königsberg in Preußen I will send all photos for Peter .that he can put them in topic I dont know is Deumer made that or not. There are Facts that small companes did ordered to make stamps from big companes.because they couldt make them self. Thats possible that this stamp was made by Deumer for ather company.The most of disign stays the same .but littel details are a little bit differents That is my opinion What do you think about this ? I think if its would be the fake .then they would be on the market .For one yare research I found only one the same plus one was found in the ground So I realy think that they are original and very rare shield Sorry for my English Regards Andrei Edited January 26, 2010 by tiff
Tim B Posted January 27, 2010 Author Posted January 27, 2010 Hello Andrei, Honestly, I just don't know. Your shield has some attributes I like, but the sharpness of details and the fact that some of those details are smaller, finer, and sharper, lead me to think either its one of the initial shields made, thus minimal wear and no die flaw, or its a really-really good copy. I do understand and agree with the thought process of "if the piece was fake, then why haven't we seen more of these?" and I tend to follow that train of thought as well because its not cheap to develop and manufacture just one of something. No moeny in that. Then again, is this shield on the forefront of a bunch of new fakes just coming out? Probably not, if you have seen a few over the last couple of years. I'll wait to hear more opinions from others. Wouldn't count it out at this point, but would be hesitant to lable it original as well. Tim :cheers:
Phil Steele Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Hi guys, I am like you Peter, cant rule it out and cant rule it in. As I said earlier I have seen round pin attachments like this on other items but I have also seen them on fake items too like some of the SS Totenkopf hat badges coming out of the Ukraine. There are aspects of this shield I like but I still have a problem with the sharp pointy bits. I do like the fact it is made of zinc but then so was that small 4 Narvik I just got rid of. Andrei if you like it then thats all that matters until further information comes to light. Did you send the picture of the one your friend purchased from Detlev to Peter. I would like to have a close look at that one for comparison. Phil
tiff Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 the third was found in the ground in Russia in citi Kaliningrad -ex Königsberg in Preußen
tiff Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Sorry, post 66, the shield is not mine and I made my logo ,---- my mistake:speechless: no logo:ninja:
Phil Steele Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Thanks Andrei for posting the pics. The shield that has been found at Kaliningrad is in my opinion different from the other two. Even with these pics I can still see differences and it maybe that it is a Deumer shield of the round pin type but as I have not seen such a shield without backing cloth I cant say how those round pins were attached. Could be one and the same but until I have seen some known examples without the backing then I will reserve my opinion. As for the other two...the one with the backing certainly looks the part but I dont like certain aspects of it. I will be interested to see what the others say but I am of the opinion these two shields are repros. Just my opinion and no offence intended. Phil
Phil Steele Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Changed my mind Andrei...I think all three are fakes. Sorry. Look like Eastern European copies but again just my opinion. Phil
tiff Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Guys if you find these shields, I'll buy them all:cheers: but I think that to find such a very very difficult:beer:
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