What is this ribbon bar worn by a Canadian Soldier

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

A coworker of mine asked if I would court mount his father's medals for the family. His father passed away last summer. With the box of material was a photo of his father in his uniform which is thought to have been taken while he was overseas. He is wearing a two medal ribbon bar and I am wondering what medals these represented. If these are the 1939/45 Star and the Canadian Volunteer Service Medals then wouldn't the photo have to be taken after 1945? He joined in 1942 and was discharged in November of 1945. The CVSM ribbon should have the maple leaf device, which is not on the ribbon in the photo. The only reason I mentioned the two medals was due to the stripes on each ribbon.

The discharge papers and the medals are shown below.

The family is going to seek more information from the Archives and when they do so I will be given more information which I will add to this post.

Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Here is a closer view of the ribbon bar.

[Brian Wolfe]

This is a copy of his discharge document. for some reason they needed this in 1976, perhaps for some benifit or insurance, and this is a copy of the certified true copy. As you may note the Discharge document was signed at Wolseley Barracks in Nov. 15, 1945. Wolseley Barracks is located in London Ontario; I know as I helped train staff when the government decommissioned it a number of years ago. It was located right in the city and only small arms ammunition was allowed to be kept there, greatly limiting their training programs. I believe it is still a small depot and the 1st Canadian Regiment's Museum was still located there the last I heard. Perhaps some of the members can add to this information.

[Brian Wolfe]

Last but far from least is the court mount that I just completed. The medals came in their original boxes which the family does not want back so they will stay in my collection along with the envelope that contained the CVSM Overseas Clasp.

These medals were awarded to:

A-104303 AMOS, Leonard George, Gunner.

I hope the family likes my work, it was an honour to have been asked to do this for them.

Regards

Brian

[Odin Mk 3]

Nicely mounted group - look very smart.

Re the medal ribbons - the 1939 Star was originally approved as the 1939-43 Star and then extended as the war went on - but ribbons were issued for wear before the war ended.

According to Ribbons and Medals by Taprell Dorling the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal was also authorised in 1943 so I suspect that ribbon was also issued before the war ended.

It could be that the concept of the maple leaf was added later and therefore wasn't perhaps envisaged back in 1943.

[Brian Wolfe]

Nicely mounted group - look very smart.

Re the medal ribbons - the 1939 Star was originally approved as the 1939-43 Star and then extended as the war went on - but ribbons were issued for wear before the war ended.

According to Ribbons and Medals by Taprell Dorling the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal was also authorised in 1943 so I suspect that ribbon was also issued before the war ended.

It could be that the concept of the maple leaf was added later and therefore wasn't perhaps envisaged back in 1943.

Hello Odin Mk 3,

That would make sense, I know that there were soldiers wearing the Africa Star ribbon well before the war's end. I do recall seeing a reference to the 1939-43 Star on a document in my collection but I thought it was a typing error.

Thanks for the information.

Regards

Brian

[Mervyn Mitton]

I always like that the Canadian silver medals were solid silver. Look at the difference on the War Medal - beautiful patina.

[Odin Mk 3]

Minor comment - according to Gordon's Battles and Medals the Canadian issues of the Defence and War Medals are actually 0.800 fine silver. They clearly look different to (and better than) the cupro nickel UK issues but if you compare one to say a silver BWM you can see the materials are not quite the same.

[Brian Wolfe]

I always like that the Canadian silver medals were solid silver. Look at the difference on the War Medal - beautiful patina.

Hi Mervyn,

I have a group that I just finished court mounting that will change your opinion somewhat.

The group includes the Canada Decoration for Long Service (CD) so the group is identifiable as to the recipient. The silver medals are all plated! It won't really change your opinion but it makes me wonder why anyone would plate a silver medal. There will never be any patina to this group, though some members may like it better as they like their medals in a polished state. Poor misguided sods.

I'll post the group another time in the correct area of the forum.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Minor comment - according to Gordon's Battles and Medals the Canadian issues of the Defence and War Medals are actually 0.800 fine silver. They clearly look different to (and better than) the cupro nickel UK issues but if you compare one to say a silver BWM you can see the materials are not quite the same.

Hi Odin Mk 3,

Your comment is not all that minor, at least not too me. I agree with you 100% and in fact if you look at the War Medal and Defence Medal next to the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal, which is .925 fine silver, you can see the difference. Of course this is not so evident if the medals are showing a lot of fine scratches due to polishing, in other words it really show up in the mint condition speciments.

Regards

Brian

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou Odin - in fact 'solid' is an expression and perhaps on this forum I should have been a little more accurate. Sterling silver is 925 parts silver and most European is 800. I suppose the Canadians were 'cutting' corners to save money.

[Brian Wolfe]

Thankyou Odin - in fact 'solid' is an expression and perhaps on this forum I should have been a little more accurate. Sterling silver is 925 parts silver and most European is 800. I suppose the Canadians were 'cutting' corners to save money.

Hi Mervyn,

You're probably correct about Canadian's cutting corners. That was back when the country was attempting to balance a budget. Now... well, why get depressing (pun intended)?

Regards

Brian

[Dave Alexander]

Merv, I'm confused as to the Canadians "cutting" corners. Sterling silver, as you say, is 92.5% silver(.925) and 7.5% another metal, usually copper. This is to strengthen the material as 99.9% Fine Silver would be too soft to be practical, it would wear down in no time. The medal couldn't be worn in a row as the overlap would destroy it. Before the 1880s, I think it was, Sterling was defined as .980 or so, if you have any silver medals before that date take care of them.

[Brian Wolfe]

Merv, I'm confused as to the Canadians "cutting" corners. Sterling silver, as you say, is 92.5% silver(.925) and 7.5% another metal, usually copper. This is to strengthen the material as 99.9% Fine Silver would be too soft to be practical, it would wear down in no time. The medal couldn't be worn in a row as the overlap would destroy it. Before the 1880s, I think it was, Sterling was defined as .980 or so, if you have any silver medals before that date take care of them.

Hi Dave,

Speaking about silver content...

My father was a coin collector and some of the medallions in his collection were actually .999 silver, very soft and he treated them "with kidd gloves" so-to-speak. I couldn't imagine trying to keep overlapped medals with an extremely high silver content in good condition, especially if they were worn very often. It's a conserver's night mare!

Regards

Brian