A new trio just arrived

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

This trio just arrived on Friday and I had to wait until we returned from a trip to the Ottawa area before I could really look it over. This came from a realiable dealer here in Ontario so that sick feeling that can come with eBay purchases was not associated with this group.

It comprises of the Silesian Eagle, with crossed swords on the ribbon, Legion of Honour Medal with combat device on the ribbon and the Honour Cross with Crossed Swords for those who served in the Navy. I think this is a nice little group and, providing it is authentic, shows a lot of combat service by the recipient.

I don't know a lot about Imperial Medals and even less about the Weimar Repiblic and FreiKorps Medals but I was wondering if the members might comment on the group.

What are your opinions on the group itself? Genuine or a "return it quickly"?

Is the crossed sword device common on the Silesian Eagle, or has this been added unofficially?

How common is the Naval Honour Cross? I can't find the post regarding the Honour Cross, I know I've seen it but searches have not turned it up on GMIC.

Lastly, I have read that the Legion of Honour medals were not allowed to be worn after 1939(?), was this for everyone or just those on active service. Could such a group have been worn legally during the TR period by a veteran not on active service?

Sorry for all of the questions but these are some question I could not discover the answers to.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Here is a view of the reverse side of the group.

The pin device is just that...a pin. Not all that official or professional but I am sure it served the purpose.

Thanks again for any comments you may have, as always, they are appreciated.

Regards

Brian

[HeikoGrusdat]

Brian....two little problems.... N°1 is the wrong ribbon for the silesian eagle... the right one should be yellow with white stripes , yours looks like a Baden medal from ww1 only the swords are not common for that one... the second one is on the wrong ribbon too , your ribbon is for the Kyffhäuser medal.... think about the group again :whistle:

Edited June 20, 2010 by HeikoGrusdat

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian....one little problem.... N°1 is the wrong ribbon for the silesian eagle... the right one should be yellow with white stripes , yours looks like a Baden medal from ww1 only the swords are not common for that one... the other medals are nices ones on the right ribbons...

Thank you for your comment.

I wonder how that would have happened. It looks to have been all mounted up at the same time. That's interesting.

Regards

Brian

[HeikoGrusdat]

Brian...we had a cross posting.... two ribbons are wrong !!!

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian...we had a cross posting.... two ribbons are wrong !!!

Hello HiekoGrusdat,

That is even more preplexing.

Returning the group will not be a problem but I am wondering when and why this may have happened. They "look" to all be of the same vintage as far as the mount is concerned. So I am now wondering if this was done in the period that they were awarded (or shortly after) and these were convenient ribbons and where just used to complete the mount or was this done much later to fool collectors.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian....two little problems.... N°1 is the wrong ribbon for the silesian eagle... the right one should be yellow with white stripes , yours looks like a Baden medal from ww1 only the swords are not common for that one... the second one is on the wrong ribbon too , your ribbon is for the Kyffhäuser medal.... think about the group again

Hello HeikoGrusdat,

Are the ribbon devices correct for the ribbons? I am now thinking that I could alway remove all of the medals, get new ribbons and keep them as singles. Then I would keep this as just a ribbon bar. My costs so far are only about what I would have paid for the Silesian Eagle and that and the Naval Honour Cross is why I purchased this group in the first place.

I think the first ribbon is the Karl Friedrick Merit Order Cross or the Merit Medal. Would this have the crossed swords device?

Any advice you can give me would be a great help.

Regards

Brian

Edited June 21, 2010 by Brian Wolfe

[HeikoGrusdat]

N°1 is the Baden merit medal on the ribbon of the Carl Friedrich order - the order itself had the same ribbon but would make make really no sense here.... the medal had NO swords for ribbon bars normally.

N°2 is the medal of the german honour legion with the wrong ribbon of the Kyffhäuser medal and the RIGHT device for "combattants" for the medal below.

N°3 is completely right

Looks old but makes not much sense with these mistakes - but it comes from a "everything goes" - era in the 1920s.... maybe a homemade bar with some stuff he have found ...?!

[Brian Wolfe]

N°1 is the Baden merit medal on the ribbon of the Carl Friedrich order - the order itself had the same ribbon but would make make really no sense here.... the medal had NO swords for ribbon bars normally.

N°2 is the medal of the german honour legion with the wrong ribbon of the Kyffhäuser medal and the RIGHT device for "combattants" for the medal below.

N°3 is completely right

Looks old but makes not much sense with these mistakes - but it comes from a "everything goes" - era in the 1920s.... maybe a homemade bar with some stuff he have found ...?!

Hello HeikoGrusdat,

Thank you for you assistance. I have been doing some research on the internet, so it may not be really good information, but what I have found out is the the device on the Kyffhauserbund ribbon would be correct for the Kyffhauserbund and was usually purchased privately by the veteran. The infomation I found also said that the device when used as it is on this bar usually indicated a member of the Navy. It would make sense that the device for the Kyffhauserbund is for Navy personnel considering the presence of the Navy Honour Cross.

The bar is indeed a homemade bar. I am thinking that I may change the two wrong medals for the correct ones. One last question.

Would the Carl Friedrich Order be correct with the other two medals (if I switched the Legion of Honour to a Kyffhauserbund)?

Thnaks agian for all of your help.

Regards

Brian

[HeikoGrusdat]

I have been doing some research on the internet, so it may not be really good information, but what I have found out is the the device on the Kyffhauserbund ribbon would be correct for the Kyffhauserbund and was usually purchased privately by the veteran. The infomation I found also said that the device when used as it is on this bar usually indicated a member of the Navy. It would make sense that the device for the Kyffhauserbund is for Navy personnel considering the presence of the Navy Honour Cross.

No........................

The device , the wreath with sword , ist the combattant sign for the honour legion medal below , but the ribbon is the ribbon of the Kyffhäusermedal (not on the bar)

This device does not show NAVY , no no no .... and the navy honour cross is no navy honour cross , it is the cross of the Marinekorps Flandern , mostly (99,99%) worn by foot troops of the Marinecorps that were in Flandern in the trenches... no (only 0,01%) navy on ships

I am at work at have no time for more detailed things now... will come back later.

cheers

Heiko

[Brian Wolfe]

No........................

The device , the wreath with sword , ist the combattant sign for the honour legion medal below , but the ribbon is the ribbon of the Kyffhäusermedal (not on the bar)

This device does not show NAVY , no no no .... and the navy honour cross is no navy honour cross , it is the cross of the Marinekorps Flandern , mostly (99,99%) worn by foot troops of the Marinecorps that were in Flandern in the trenches... no (only 0,01%) navy on ships

I am at work at have no time for more detailed things now... will come back later.

cheers

Heiko

Thank you so much for your help and I look forward to any further infomation you can impart to me.

That is the problem with the internet...too many self-appointed experts. I had read that the device presently above the Legion of Honour was actually for the Kyffhauserbund. After I read this I started to look for examples to support what the "expert" was saying and fond no proof. I did find an example of the Legion of Honour with the wreath and swords.

I would like to hear what you think about the possibility of the Karl Friedrich Medal of Merit belonging with the Marinekorps Flandern Cross and therefore on this bar. The dealer has offered to take the bar back or give me a Karl Friedrich Medal of Merit, if it belongs on the bar.

I am happy to hear that the cross is for the Marinekorps Flandern as I have medals to the WWI British Marines and this fits in my collection even better.

Regards and thanks again for all of your help.

Brian

[HeikoGrusdat]

Brian........ pm sent :whistle:

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian........ pm sent

Many , many thanks Heiko.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks to the help and guidance of the members I have now corrected this medal bar.

I've removed the ribbon divices and replaced the Legion of Honour with the correct medal for the ribbon being the Kyffhauserbund Medal and the Silesian Eagle has been replaced by the Baden, Karl Friedrich Merit medal.

I guess this is now in the wrong section as it would be an Imperial bar considering the Baden Merit Medal.

I don't usually like to create groups of medals but in this case I think it is warranted. I used nylon thread rather than the black cotton thread that was previously employed as I wanted to "advertise" that there has been alterations to the group. The funny thing about the group, the way it was, is that all of the sewing was done with exactly the same thread. Black cotton with a double twist, I checked it out under high magnification. The ribbons seem slightly soiled and yet when I removed the two ribbon devices they left no visible "clean spot" revealing their former location.

Whatever the story behind the group it has now been corrected and future potential purchasers should pick up on the "modern" thread that has been used on two of the three medals.

Thanks again for all of the help your given to me.

I hope you approve of the corrected group.

Regards

Brian

Edited June 24, 2010 by Brian Wolfe

[Brian Wolfe]

Here is a view of the reverse of the medals and the bar.

I think you can clearly see the nylon thread, though it is sold as "invisible thread".

Regards

Brian