France A question of moral significance for you

[2xvetran]

Today I received two letters from the French Government concerning the award of the Legion D'Honneur to an American WWII veteran. The problem is I have absolutely no idea who the veteran is. About a year ago I did an internship at a local veterans affairs office. Part of my duties were to order replacement medals for those veterans wishing to obtain them. In the U.S. there is a free replacement of military awards one time. Some veterans I noticed were eligible for the LOH so I submitted their names and discharge papers to the French Consulate for consideration. I do not recognize the name on this award, I called the veterans office today and they do not have the name in their records either, and I have no idea why it came to my house... So I was given three options on how to receive the award, one of which included shipment by FEDEX. My initial thought was to just disregard this as something very weird, but now I think that this would be a great thing to research and try to locate the veteran or his family. The veterans name is a fairly common one, so locating him may be difficult, but it could be interesting as well. What do you all think, the award has already been recorded in France so it's not like I can just refuse it and all will be done. But there is the chance that somewhere out there this guy or his family will be looking for his LOH. I am not sure that the consulate really cares all that much as they seem to be trying to get as many of these out to the WWII guys as possible before they die. I would surely like to hear all thoughts on this moral dilemma. Should I take the FEDEX option? Scott.

[TacHel]

Yikes...

If you take it even with the best intentions in the World and cannot find the rightful recipient or heir... What then? Bad situation to be in.

If you are not absolutely positive you can find the vet... Don't touch it, return it, too bad...

My 2 cents worth...

[IrishGunner]

If you don't accept it - it is likely lost to the family; as you said the French Consulate doesn't seem to care after they send out the medal (action completed in their mind). They won't likely do anything to find the veteran.

What if you accept and find the family - huge success. It's a win and you have the feeling of a good deed done.

What if you accept and don't find the family - just return it back to the Consulate; the result would be the same as if you don't accept at all. No harm, no foul.

If you accept and try - you tried to do the right thing. If you fail, worst case is that you send it back to the French authorities.

Having worked similar cases from the Embassy side, if there were someone like you willing to do the leg work I would jump at that chance. Otherwise, the diplomatic staff just has too much to do - while perhaps the right thing to do - one just has to consider the reality. Like I said, I would welcome your assistance - even if you failed.

I say go for it!

[Hugh]

I agree; give it your best effort. You can always return it later. You'll have a fun project trying to find him.

Hugh

[2xvetran]

Thank you for the opinions. I guess the only way for a win-win would be to accept it and try to locate the vet or his family, if I fail then I return the medal and documents to the Consulate... Now, let me compound this further. I have a good friend whose father was a Normandy veteran of the 35th Division. My friend had researched and assembled all of his fathers awards before his father passed away a couple of years ago. He now knows that his father would have been able to receive the LoH from France but never did. The regulation states that the veteran should be alive, but given that I have received the award confirmation on an unknown veteran, would my friend be wrong in attempting to obtain his fathers award and thus having his fathers name recorded by the French Government as a fitting tribute to his fathers service? He is a well known collector and author and I don't believe he would want to do anything wrong, but his father was entitled to this award and it becomes part of the family legacy. What do you all think? Scott.

[Hugh]

I say your friend should submit. The regulation was doubtless written by civilian bureaucrats, thinking (among other things) that restriction to the living would reduce cost to the government. If the award is meaningful to the family, they should request it.

[TacHel]

If your friend went through so much trouble to properly acquire his father's awards, do you think he'd just slap this one among the set knowing full well it wasn't meant for him? And if regs stipulate "living", then forget it... Regs are regs... Don't mean to seem cold but there you have it...

[2xvetran]

If your friend went through so much trouble to properly acquire his father's awards, do you think he'd just slap this one among the set knowing full well it wasn't meant for him? And if regs stipulate "living", then forget it... Regs are regs... Don't mean to seem cold but there you have it...

I should have been more clear. I wasn't suggesting that I would give him the medal I initially wrote about. I was saying that perhaps he may disregard the reg about being alive, and submit the paperwork to the French so that his father can get recognized posthumously.

I understand regulations, but as Hugh stated most are made by beaurocrats looking to save a buck. Here in the states, there has been legislation proposed in congress for several years to issue a Cold War Service Medal. It never passes the Senate as the cost of issuing these to so many living veterans is prohibitive. When a million or two die off then they will pass the measure and have a grand celebration of those who served during this time in history.

This has happened with our WWI/WWII veterans regarding many awards and specifically the LoH from the French. So, his dad clearly met the criteria and did not live long enough to receive his award, is he any less entitled? Only from the letter of the law. The other reason to do this is educational, here in the states we have a couple of generations who think Memorial Day is the first day of summer. What a way to spark interest in the past, by having a child become interested in the history of a relatives awards.

I am curious to know if the Canadians who served in France rate the LoH? Canada seems to have a much wider appreciation of their military heritage than the U.S. Let me know and thanks for your honest opinion. Scott.

[Harvey]

I think your friend should definitely submit his father's name for the LoH - he earned it, and the fact that it's posthumously awarded does not detract one whit from the service he rendered to France in order to qualify for it.

Speaking of qualifying for the LoH - what are the requirements for WWII veterans to receive it?

[2xvetran]

I think your friend should definitely submit his father's name for the LoH - he earned it, and the fact that it's posthumously awarded does not detract one whit from the service he rendered to France in order to qualify for it.

Speaking of qualifying for the LoH - what are the requirements for WWII veterans to receive it?

Hi Harvey, the qualifications are really simple. A servicemember must have served in France or in the air or off the coast and have it recorded on their discharge paper. So a bronze campaign star device for Normandy or Southern France for example. Then you forward the veterans info and discharge to the nearest French consulate requesting the award. It takes many months of processing but apparently they do come through. Hope this helps and thanks for the input, Scott.

[Veteran]

Hello 2xvetran

May I advise you to carry on with your idea of researching the right veteran or his family. To do this, accept the award in order to proceed with your plan, advise the French Consulate that the medal was sent to you (but not that you have accepted it) and that you are researching the rightful owner. In the same letter, also mention your intention to return the award if you are unsuccessful with your research.

You would then be quite covered and able to follow your original plan without being suspected of any kind of foul play. Yours is a generous idea worth every effort. I wish you every success.

Regards

Veteran

Edited October 21, 2010 by Veteran

[Harvey]

Does anyone know of any cases where this award has been presented posthumously? I have a friend whose father fought in the Ardennes, and would thus qualify for the award. Unfortunately, he passed away years ago. Can his son still submit documentation on his behalf?

[2xvetran]

Does anyone know of any cases where this award has been presented posthumously? I have a friend whose father fought in the Ardennes, and would thus qualify for the award. Unfortunately, he passed away years ago. Can his son still submit documentation on his behalf?

Since starting this thread I have discovered that the veteran whose medal I received is deceased. While I am still trying to contact the family, it would appear that the French Government makes no effort to determine if the veteran is living. Scott.

[Harvey]

My friend spoke with the French consulate here in Los Angeles today and received much the same information - they prefer to send the award to a living veteran, but make no effort to verify whether or not the recipient is still living. Apparently, it is not a difficult process and only takes a few months provided the documentation (DD-214, citations, etc.) are in order. Will let y'all know when/if the award comes through.