Whistles: City of London

[Monty]

Hello Folks,

Firstly be gentle with me, this is my first post here and I apologise if my ettiquette isnt up to scratch. Its purely down to ignorance rather than offence.

Secondly, I must send kudos to the organisers, admin and contributors to this site. It is truely fantastic to have found this extremely well informed site. My own Police collection is modest, cuffs, whistles, cape and trucheon however I am looking to expand. My interest is only just blooming, this site inspires.

Thirdly I have a query. My interest in the History of Policing stems from an almost life long interest in the Whitechapel Murders of 1888. My knowledge of Policed history, equipment etc is pretty well founded (though no where near on your level) and Im fairly certain as to the answer to my query, which I hope you will be able to answer.

Basically when were the City of London Police Bobbies issued with whistles?

I know the Met had them some years previous to 88. I know City PC Watkins did not have one when he discovered one of the victims (Eddowes) and amongst my collection of photos, the City boys are pictured in their 1887 Jubilee photo without one. However Im not certain as to when they were issued. For some reason I have 1889 in my head, maybe something Ive read but cannot recall where.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Again, apologies if Ive posted in the wrong place, and many thanks in advance for your help.

Gratefully yours

Monty

PS Attached is that 1887 Snow Hill image

[Mervyn Mitton]

Monty - welcome to GMIC - please be assured that if you have an interest in Police, then you are among friends.

Dealing, firstly, with your query on City of London whistles. Until 1884 British Forces carried a rattle - this was OK when a frock coat was worn, since the rattle was in the tail pocket at the back. When they were shortened to tunics thay were harder to carry. Finally, in 1884 tests were carried out to compare rattles with the new whistles. These were not the 'air' ones in later use, but more in the shape of gym whistles and they had a pea (in fact a ball of cork). The tests proved conclusively that whistles carried for up to 800 or, 900 yards - twice the distance of the rattle.

The Metropolitan Police therefore, adopted them and other Forces also, gradually changed over. However, you must remember that unlike the Met. - who came under the authority of the Home Secretary - other Forces had Chief Constables and Watch Committees- so, it often took time for the changeover. The Police themselves were also very reluctant to give-up rattles - they had proved to be a quick and reliable weapon in an emergency.

The City of London were established following the Police Act of 1838 and followed the Met. quite closely. I never covered their whistles in my book -however, I would say within one or, two years from the Met. Police.

I was very intterested to see your background with 'Jack the Ripper'. I was originally posted to Bethnal Green Police Station in the heart of London's East End - and we included all of the murders apart from the City. My original beat - No.3 - had three of his murder sites and the one in Hanbury Street was exactly how the Illustrated London News had drawn the back yard. They later pulled the building down - and now have re-built it for the tourist trade. The stupidity and greed of property developers never fails to amaze me !

Being the newest PC I was given this Beat as it was furthest from the Station to walk. I loved it - so much history. I had Brick Lane and many of the tenements still existed from the renovations following the murders. My own opinion - and I have gone fairly deeply into the available research - is that it was the Doctor. His name escapes me (was it Druitt ?) - but I write these threads from memory. When I organised the first exhibition the Met. had put on it's history, in 1973, much new information came to light. I certainly have no time for all the Royal theorists.

When I first went to Bethnal Green, we had the men from the Commercial Street Station sharing with us - their station had been built-in the 1880's following the murders and was being replaced. When they cleared the attics of the old building they found all the original statements and all of the lists of people living in each street and building. Information never looked at for 100 years. They took it into the yard of the building and burnt every file. I did my best to get hold of some - I even took the mnatter up with a senior officer. To no avail - I was too new at that time and did not have the influence I may have had later. A tragedy of the first order - who knows what might have been in those files ?

Tell us a little more about your collection and - yourself - we're a nosy lot.....

[Monty]

[Hi Mervyn,

Thank you for the warm welcome. Thanks to others who have welcomed me privately also.

Hmmm, Watkins (who found one of Jacks victims) stated at inquest that I did not sound an alarm. We do not carry whistles. This indicates that the City boys did not carry whistles in 1888. I guess the search for confirmation contiues.

You were in J Division huh? They dealt with the Nichols murder. Hanbury Street, or rather the side which no 29 once stood, has been swallowed up by the Trueman Brewery. The opposite side is pretty much as was. I envy that you managed to see the building before its demolition. Have you every watched 'The London nobody knows'? with James Mason? That has the yard in it, pretty much as you'd remember it I bet. Its available on You Tube to view.

Druitt was described by one chief officer (Macnaghten) as a Doctor but he was infact a Barrister/Teacher. Now we do have a Dr Tumblety but I could bore you for hours over this one.

Arrrgh, they burnt the Commercial St files? The swines. Were any saved? A similar thinghappened at Citys Snow Hill station. Don Rumbelow managed to rescue the infamous Mary Kelly photo plates from there. Good job he did else we would have lost them for good.

Me? I am a researcher who has written many articles on the subject. I have recently completed a series of aritcles (along with my co writer Rob Clack) on the City PCs involved in the Kelly case, having managed to obtain their service records. Ive manged to ID the last person to speak to the 5th victim (Eddowes), PC George Hutt...he is my avtar and Im currently an advisor on an upcoming Jack doc being made for Channel 5, History Channel and eventually world wide distribution.

Cheers

Monty

[Mervyn Mitton]

Monty - following the earlier posts, I thought I would show you the pattern of whistle which was first introduced in the 1880's. The rattle was one of the last styles used - this one for Manchester Police in 1868. When I get around to it, I will be doing a short article on 'Methods of Raising the Alarm '

Do you have any interest in the Siege of Sidney Street ? The site of the siege was just across from my Home Beat and I have always found it an interesting story. The City Museum lent the original court exhibit model for our 'Police and the East End' Exhibition and also the Broomhandle Mauser found at the scene of the fire. Should this not form part of your interests I will do an outline - again at some time in the future.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

Note the lead plugs - these helped the swing - but, also made it a formidable weapon.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Monty]

Hi Mervyn,

Apologies for my tardy reply.

Many thanks for those images. Beautiful. Im off to the City Museum next week, Im looking forward to it immensely.

Sidney Street does hold an interest for me. I have the plans of the property in Cutler Street plus the morgue photos of the deceased Policemen. My Co writer, Rob, is completely into that event and holds a lot more items than me.

Sidney Street is near your beat? Maybe you can answer a question or two. Theres a section house next to Assembley Passage on the Mile End waste, is that correct? Also, another police building was situated a few yards away next to Stepney Green, just up from Cressy dwellings. Was that a section house also?

You may recognise this photo. I was there in April.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Monty. That is the old Section House isn't it ? So long since I've been anywhere near. I used to park my TR5 where the photo was taken from and my window was 1st. floor - fourth from left - I lived there from Jan.1968 for 18 months and then had special permission from CO (Scotland Yard) to share a flat with another PC from my Station. There were other Sect.Houses - I know there was one for the Isle of Dogs - but they were gone by the time I was posted. The main road at that point is the Ratcliffe Highway - runs from Tower Hill to Wapping. Thames River Police were established off of it - and it formed part of the Shadwell Magistracy - my illustration on my detail section on each post, is for the Shadwell Magistrate in 1800. When criminals - or, suicides - had to be buried in those pre-1820 days, they could not be buried in Consecrated ground and were buried in the centre of cross roads. The Ratcliffe Highway is notorious for the number of bodies buried along it's length and they are often turned-up in road workings.

The Siege of Sidney Street is a very famous event - mainly because of the three City policemen killed and also because Winston Churchill - as Home Secretary, brought a detachment of Guards and took part in the firing against the building. Without checking, I think it took place in 1910 - the year my Father was born.

Now that we have mentioned this event it would be nice to have a short article for our members. Should it not interfere with your professional aspect it would be good if you could do this ?

My Home Beat was along Cambridge Heath from the Museum and then turned left along Mile End Road, I was responsible for 20,000 residents, but you will appreciate that in my absence it was covered by normal patrols. I think now that this type of policing has gone, which is a pity as it was very effective. I had a lot of the three card trick gangs living in flats and I remember being on a bus in Oxford Street and seeing five of them working a crowd. I made a note and had summonses served on them - they never could believe how I got all five of them. Sidney Street was the other side of the Road and came under Leman Street Police Station. I believe it has been moved now, but was 'H'Divisional HQ. I always thought it funny that a Police Station should be called after the street - Leman Street ! The old French/saxon name for street of prostitutes....

Please keep in touch over your projects - who knows what other details can be dredged out of old memories ?

[Monty]

Hi Mervyn,

Erm, sorry to do this old chap, but its actually a photo of Sidney Street itself. At the junction with Redman Street. I think they are the only survining buildings from the time of the siege, which was 1910.

Ive attached a photo of the section house on Mile End Road.

The Highway was notorious. There the murders that occured there mid 1800s. It was a lawless area. Didnt know about the bodies though....creepy.

The George Inn on Cambridge Heath Road is still there, Ive a photo somewhere. IDo you remember the odd looking Wickhams Department Store which would have been on your beat? That is still there also.

f you wish, I can forward a series of photos to you privately which you may recognise from your beat. Take you back as it were, just let me know.

Cheers

Monty

[Mervyn Mitton]

I had a feeling it might be Sidney Street - but it looked like the Section House - if you know what I mean............. It is 42 years since I've been near the place. I don't remember Sidney Street looking as clear as this - it became part of (Watney's ?) the brewery. It was burnt out - perhaps the brewery has gone and they have restored the original terrace?

No, I still remeber the area - my flat was in Gore Road - part of the Crown Estate (my lease named it between me and the Queen) I gave it up about 12 years ago - however, I had no need to go near the Highway. I used it for overnights when I came-up from Bournemouth on business or, shopping.

Whilst there is great historical interest in the area , the fact is that it has changed a lot - they used to send pamphlets from Hackney Council in 11 official languages. Most of the early residents are now in Essex or, Golder's Green ! I won't watch East Enders for the same reason - I'm sure I've arrested most of the older ones - and the rest should be !

Incidentally, the section house you show is not 'mine' - that was just off the Highway. Mervyn