Truncheons, Nightsticks, Billy Clubs and "Cudgels"

[speagle]

Hello All,

I am starting this topic with a VERY basic picture of a nightstick I recently pick up at the beginning of our vacation (4 weeks to go )

I have quite a few at home I'll be taking pics of and posting next month BUT in the meantime, how about posting some of yours? I have talked with Mervyn and know he had posted some pics earlier but thought this might generate some more interest in this area. Feel free to contribute

The club is 18" long.

Ed

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Ed. This is where we are all going to learn something. I don't think this is an American item - it looks like a British pattern truncheon prior to about 1960 - they started to use Rosewood then. Looking at the remains of the strap, the stitching is in the same style as British and the length was usually 17" (46cm) but this could vary slightly.

The question is - did a US Force have these made locally for use as Nightsticks - or, did they import from the UK for the same purpose ? The alternative must be - is it a souvenir someone has bought on a holiday and brought over ? As I say we will all learn something from this - Ed, are there any markings or, stampings anywhere on the body. Look around the head. Mervyn

[speagle]

Hi - Ed. This is where we are all going to learn something. I don't think this is an American item - it looks like a British pattern truncheon prior to about 1960 - they started to use Rosewood then. Looking at the remains of the strap, the stitching is in the same style as British and the length was usually 17" (46cm) but this could vary slightly.

The question is - did a US Force have these made locally for use as Nightsticks - or, did they import from the UK for the same purpose ? The alternative must be - is it a souvenir someone has bought on a holiday and brought over ? As I say we will all learn something from this - Ed, are there any markings or, stampings anywhere on the body. Look around the head. Mervyn

Hi Mervyn:

Thanks for the info. I don't know of any US Forces that had these made. They would have used issued nightsticks (I'll post some pics of various types and lengths when I get home). More than likely it was a souvenir that wound up part of an Estate Sale. I actually "guestimated" the length, but did what I should have done before I posted and measured. It is actually 15" (38.1cm). I have added two more shots of the ends. It appears it was done on a lathe. There were no markings at all.

Edited September 18, 2010 by speagle

[Tony]

Ed & Mervyn,

I always have a look at the truncheons and sticks posted but have no clue about what was used when and who by, I simply find them interesting especially the older ones.

If rosewood was used for truncheons in the 60s, what kinds of wood were used before?

I've been tempted to buy a Victorian truncheon in the past but as I mentioned I don't know anything about them and with the prices they sell for I won't be chancing it as I'm sure they will be copied too.

Looking forward to seeing more of these and hopefully learning a little bit.

Tony

[speagle]

Ed & Mervyn,

I always have a look at the truncheons and sticks posted but have no clue about what was used when and who by, I simply find them interesting especially the older ones.

If rosewood was used for truncheons in the 60s, what kinds of wood were used before?

I've been tempted to buy a Victorian truncheon in the past but as I mentioned I don't know anything about them and with the prices they sell for I won't be chancing it as I'm sure they will be copied too.

Looking forward to seeing more of these and hopefully learning a little bit.

Tony

Hi Tony,

It's pretty much like anything else. The value is in the eye (and wallet) of the beholder. I will try to find bargins BUT if I see something I truly like, I'll probably get it (with the wife's approval of course (Actually, she is VERY understanding and usually says, "Well, if you want it, get it!") as she did with this one.

My son arrives in Arkansas tomorrow (Monday) for a week's visit so he and I will be hitting some of the local antique stores next week. Hope I come up with some finds to post.

Ed

[Les-Art]

Hi Ed,

I would agree with Mervyn, the truncheon is a UK pattern. However it may not have come from the UK, depending on where you picked it up, these seem to be quite collectable in the 1980's ,by U.S. Police Officers on cruise ship holidays in the Caribean, as souvenirs of visits to UK commonwealth islands - Barbados, Bermuda, Bahamas, Cayaman Islands, Jamaica and the smaller islands. They thought it was 'quaint' that the police constables carried 'little sticks' and no guns.

Many cops in California and Florida brought them home just as a holiday souvenir , they weren't collectors. So this truncheon may be one from one of the commonwealth police batches, most equipment was supplied from UK suppliers through the Commonwealth Office, I think, in any case a UK governement office.

In the UK this type of baton was still being issued in the 1980's, at least here in Scotland they were, not sure what happened in England.

Look forward to seeing some of your other batons when you get back from your holiday, or should that be vacation.

Best Regards,

Les

[speagle]

Hi Ed,

I would agree with Mervyn, the truncheon is a UK pattern. However it may not have come from the UK, depending on where you picked it up, these seem to be quite collectable in the 1980's ,by U.S. Police Officers on cruise ship holidays in the Caribean, as souvenirs of visits to UK commonwealth islands - Barbados, Bermuda, Bahamas, Cayaman Islands, Jamaica and the smaller islands. They thought it was 'quaint' that the police constables carried 'little sticks' and no guns.

Many cops in California and Florida brought them home just as a holiday souvenir , they weren't collectors. So this truncheon may be one from one of the commonwealth police batches, most equipment was supplied from UK suppliers through the Commonwealth Office, I think, in any case a UK governement office.

In the UK this type of baton was still being issued in the 1980's, at least here in Scotland they were, not sure what happened in England.

Look forward to seeing some of your other batons when you get back from your holiday, or should that be vacation.

Best Regards,

Les

Hi Les,

Thanks for the info. I actually purchased this in a shop in Helena, Montana, however, there is one of the largest US Army training Posts nearby (Fort Harrison) so that may be an answer.

After 6 years in England, "Holiday" is very acceptable:rolleyes: .

[speagle]

I had posted these shot awhile ago, but thought I'd add them here as part of the new category.

[speagle]

Another Christmas present from my son.

Please open the 3rd picture. It has some ID numbers on it. Long shot, but perhaps someone may have some info on what it means.

As best as I can make out they are:

16-50

R-795

The last two are pics of both ends, just an FYI.

Thanks in advance

Ed

Edited January 29, 2014 by speagle

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Ed. Nice to see this post brought back. The nightstick - as you call them in the US - does seem to have an American

background. 25 " seems about the right size to be hand carried -or, hung on the belt. Britain has this size available now for

use as Riot sticks - they carry a shield with it.

I hope other collectors can start adding their new additions to Ed's thread. Mervyn

[speagle]

Here are some of my "standard" ones.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi Ed.   My apologies  -  I've just realised that we haven't replied to you since the beginning of last December.  Nothing intentional I promise you.    I have a number of items that I will get photographed and will add  -  however, at present it looks as if photos have not caught up with the new downloads.

Meanwhile, I have been preparing a  new series on Riot Police of the World and will try to get this on fairly soon.  Best wishes, hope all is well and my regards to your Mother.    Mervyn

 

 

[speagle]

Mervyn,

I had some problem trying to sign in a couple of weeks ago. I was getting a message saying the site didn't recognize my name or password (the same one I have been using since I joined. I tried to send you a regular e-mail but got no response. I tried again tonight and decided to go for a "password change". I obviously was successful and here I am again :-)  Things are going well with the family. I'm adding another pic of some more of my collection.

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[speagle]

I believe the 4th from the right is what we call a "fish wacker" used by fishermen NOT police (although it could probably do the job just as well :-) The bottom one was one my Dad took away from a US Army prisoner while we were stationed in France. A neat story.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Ed - some of the 'sticks' you show are old and very sought after.  The Boston , New York and I believe, Philadelphia Police , all carried specially carved truncheons on ceremonial parades.   The woven cotton wrist grips were always very fanciful.      I think some of yours are of this pattern.  Fish clubs are used all over the World , so I expect you are right in your ident.     You must tell us the history of the strange Banana shaped one  -  good workmanship.

I will show 4 from my collection which are not standard shapes.    Mervyn

[Mervyn Mitton]

This is an American Police pocket club  -  known as a 'ZAP'.    8 1/4 inches (21cm) it weighs 6 1/2 ozs.(205gms) and is filled with lead.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

This next pattern has replaced the old wooden truncheons.   Based originally from the folding  steel folding batons carried by German Commandoes, it is now used in most Countries.   This is a South African made one.  8 inches when folded - it extends to 19 1/2 inches ( 20cm - 49.5cm).  The weight is 11 ozs  -  355 gms.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

US Police Nightstick.  36 inches (80cm) 13 1/2 ozs (430gms)

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

This last one is a private purchase I made in France when I used to have a boat in Antibes.  Never used, but it felt safer to walk off the boat at night

A word of caution  -  these will all get you arrested if you carry them outside of a collection.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Mervyn Mitton

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Brian Wolfe]

​Hi Mervyn,

These were also used in Ontario, Canada by the Ontario Provincial Police in the 1960s.

Regards

Brian

This is an American Police pocket club  -  known as a 'ZAP'.    8 1/4 inches (21cm) it weighs 6 1/2 ozs.(205gms) and is filled with lead.

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