Help Identify Date of UK Regiment Cross Belt Plate

[tjones]

Friends - I also posted this in the identifications corner, but I know that not all members go there so I'll put the question here as well, if you don't mind.

Do you think the cross belt plate in the photo is late Victorian? In other words, do you think it's over 100 years old? It looks to me to be that old, but I am not terribly knowledgeable about the subject.

All opinions accepted with many thanks!

[tjones]

Here is a photo of the back.

[QSAMIKE]

Good Evening......

The regiment that you are looking for is..... THE HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY......

This is not I am afraid a Victorian piece...... I cannot find my book on cross belt plates and buttons right now but I thinkit is from the George V and VI era...... 1910 to the early 1950's......

Willsend you the reference as soon as I find it......

Mike

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Mike. I identified this (on Collectors Corner) as late Victorian and into Edward 7th. Will be interested to see if you can identify as late as the George 5th and 6th. ? Mervyn

[tjones]

Thank you to Mervyn and Mike for contributing an opinion as to the age of this belt plate.

Mike, I would be grateful if you could identify in your book on belt plates and offer a conclusive opinion? (perhaps a photo?) Also, which book is that? (I should probably buy it)

Much obliged to you both for helping

[QSAMIKE]

Hi - Mike. I identified this (on Collectors Corner) as late Victorian and into Edward 7th. Will be interested to see if you can identify as late as the George 5th and 6th. ? Mervyn

Hi Mervyn......

I have checked my book...... "MILITARY SHOULDER BELT PLATES AND BUTTONS bu Major H. G. Parkyn OBE, Published 1956 by Gale and Polden"..... But the problem is it only goes up to 1885 I thought it went on later......

I checked my K and K and the crown on the badge is the Victorian Crown as used on the cap badge......

This got me thinking and so I started checking some old auction catalogues..... I found it in one cataloguge with a full white metal badge and called Victorian...... In another with a Bi-metal badge it was called George V......

There are other units that still keep the Victorian style crowns on some of their badges even after the end of the reign......

Maybe it would be good to post on the British Badge forum and they could tell for certain......

Mike

[tjones]

Hi Mervyn......

I have checked my book...... "MILITARY SHOULDER BELT PLATES AND BUTTONS bu Major H. G. Parkyn OBE, Published 1956 by Gale and Polden"..... But the problem is it only goes up to 1885 I thought it went on later......

I checked my K and K and the crown on the badge is the Victorian Crown as used on the cap badge......

This got me thinking and so I started checking some old auction catalogues..... I found it in one cataloguge with a full white metal badge and called Victorian...... In another with a Bi-metal badge it was called George V......

There are other units that still keep the Victorian style crowns on some of their badges even after the end of the reign......

Maybe it would be good to post on the British Badge forum and they could tell for certain......

Mike

Thanks. In case other members are interested in using the shapes of the various crowns to date badges, there is a good discussion with colour photos here:

http://www.diggerhis...adges-index.htm

There are four crowns that appear with regularity: the Imperial (State) crown of 1837, the Tudor crown, the Imperial (State) crown of 1937, and St. Edwards crown.

[Jim Maclean]

The above description on diggerhistory is a bit confusing unless you know what you're looking at first.

The crown on the belt plate should I think be correctly be called the "Crown of the Garter on the Star of India" often referred to as the Indian Crown or the flat topped Victorian crown. It's found mostly on Victorian cavalry badges and a couple of infantry badges, the HLI being one of them.

[jocktamson]

Hi...the Highland Light Infantry SBP does look Victorian. If i am not mistaken the crown is known as the Imperial Crown and was adopted by the HLI in 1881. Queen Victoria was proclaimed Empress of India in 1876. Ive never seen an H.L.I. Shoulder Belt Plate prior to 1902 with the regular Victorian Crown. But in my opinion this is definitely Victorian.

Edited November 11, 2010 by jocktamson

[jocktamson]

Just as an after thought...this style of Shoulder Belt Plate was also used by the various H.L.I. Militia and Volunteer battalions but with a blank scroll without the Assaye Battle honour.

Edited November 11, 2010 by jocktamson

[leigh kitchen]

The above description on diggerhistory is a bit confusing unless you know what you're looking at first.

The crown on the belt plate should I think be correctly be called the "Crown of the Garter on the Star of India" often referred to as the Indian Crown or the flat topped Victorian crown. It's found mostly on Victorian cavalry badges and a couple of infantry badges, the HLI being one of them.

Some collectors (including me) tend to refer to this "flat-topped" Victorian Crown as "The Jubilee Crown", others as "The Cavalry Crown" because they associate its use with cavalry regiment's badges - perhaps thinking of regiments such as 21st Lancers were formed originally as The 3rd Bengal European Light Cavalry & were later The 21st (Empress of India's) Lancers.

Offhand I can only think of The DLI & HLI who wore the crown on their Victorian era badges. Possibly tThe Hampshire Regiment on some insoignia?

I suppose we should put a thread together on the badges with this crown.