Date of Cap?

[Robin Lumsden]

Can anyone help me 'date' this cap, please??

1930s........or 1940s..........or 1950s ????

The shape looks early, but the chinstrap looks late. I know next to nothing about these.

[Robin Lumsden]

The buttons are by 'Jennens'.

[Robin Lumsden]

The badge is marked 'Silver'. (Does this mean it was made in India??)

[Robin Lumsden]

Interior.........

[Robin Lumsden]

Lastly, the label.

Small hat size............but I suppose most cavalry types were shortish.

[Robin Lumsden]

This Liverpool Regiment cap has a similar label inside.

The motto appears to read.........'At the Head'.

Anyone know which firm this relates to? If it is, in fact, a manufacturer?

[Robin Lumsden]

Last question.

The lancer cap cost £45.

Was that a good deal? :cheers:

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Robin. The cap is in very good condition. I would have thought it was around the 1st WW period - perhaps running into the early 1930's. The high crown seems to indicate that period. For 45 pounds I would say you had a bargain - particularly with the condition. The badge on it's own - in silver - could easily fetch more. The word silver does not always mean overseas - although it obviously can indicate this. Small items did not always require to be hallmarked - and as part of a batch it was probably easier to just stamp 'silver'. However, silver was usually for officers' - so this may not be the correct badge ?

Looking at it again - it is probably an officers' pattern. See what others think ?

Edited November 24, 2010 by Mervyn Mitton

[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks very much, Mervyn.

I appreciate the answer!

Yes.............the cap is pretty well in 'near mint' condition.

As you know, I collect skull-related badges so I just took a 'gamble' on this one. The seller had a few other nice lancer items. They may have come from the same man.

[Stuart Bates]

Jennens were in business from 1860-1924. In 1924 they amalgamated with J.R. Gaunt.

They were Jennens & Co London until 1912, and Jennens & Co Ltd London until 1924 so the backmark should give the date range.

Stuart

[Robin Lumsden]

Jennens were in business from 1860-1924. In 1924 they amalgamated with J.R. Gaunt.

They were Jennens & Co London until 1912, and Jennens & Co Ltd London until 1924 so the backmark should give the date range.

Stuart

Thanks a lot, Stuart.

I'll have a look at the back of the buttons.........

[Robin Lumsden]

In 1914, the 17th Lancers were part of the Indian Cavalry Corps (Sialkot Cavalry Brigade)...............I wonder if that could explain the 'Silver'-marked cap badge (rather than standard British hallmarks) ??

I believe British badges were widely produced in India at that time, for garrison troops.

[Stuart Bates]

This is an apposite site with the use of "silver" in ex-pat British silversmiths' hallmarks http://www.925-1000.com/AngloIndian_01.html

No doubt that Indian makers would have followed suit in some form or another.

Stuart

[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks again, Stuart.

That's a very interesting site. :cheers:

[Robin Lumsden]

Jennens were in business from 1860-1924. In 1924 they amalgamated with J.R. Gaunt.

They were Jennens & Co London until 1912, and Jennens & Co Ltd London until 1924 so the backmark should give the date range.

Stuart

Both buttons are simply marked 'Jennens & Co.'.

[Stuart Bates]

Well we cannot draw any conclusions from this, but at least the end date should be 1924.

Stuart

[cbuehler]

The cap is not an OR's issue, but an officers private purchase (as they all were) example. The badge is an officers silver example as well. This means it could also have been worn by the WO or RSM.

The cap without doubt dates at the earliest from the late 20's, but more likely closer to the beginning of ww2. After that point, officer service dress caps began to change to the slack crown style with the underside of the visor covered in cloth. Please note that this is a generalization and stiff crowns with green board visors were made during ww2 as well, and cloth visor undersides were sometimes encountered in earlier period caps.

A very good buy for 45 Pounds indeed!

CB

[Stuart Bates]

This is the only cap I had and since I have sold it to a fellow member no other photos, But what date would you put on this one?

Further to my commments on the button backmark Jennens & Co I wonder if J.R. Gaunt kept using that nomenclature for a period after the amalgamation (take over?).

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

Those Plus-2s are a sight to behold. I wonder if anyone other than the perpetrator thought much of the look.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

Toby,

not being overly familiar with thse caps does the one you show have flaps held together by that strap with eyelets?

Stuart

[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this post.

Some very interesting information!

The cap now has a couple of pals ..................

[Stuart Bates]

Robin,

congratulations as it is always a bit of a coup to get complementary items

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

Toby,

I tried to identify the cap badge on the Yeomanry RSM's cap and the closest I could get was the 3rd Battalion The Monmouthshire Regiment. There are plenty of regiments/battalions sporting the Welsh Dragon but only the one with it rampant. Do you have the regiment to which he belongs?

BTW: very nice photographs.

Stuart

[GRA]

Hello Stuart!

Wasn't it a Regular serving with the Yeomanry? If that was the case of that particular RSM, then the cap badge of the 7th Dragoon Guards is a good candidate too.

/Jonas

[Stuart Bates]

Ah, I mistook the lion rampant for the Welsh Dragon. I can see clearly now

Stuart