Markus Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I have drooled over the Iraq Order of El Rafidain for quite awhile, admiring the great design of this order. Searching for some reasonable priced medals of this order for over one year, my patience finally paid with these fine examples!
Markus Posted April 12, 2011 Author Posted April 12, 2011 Order of El Rafidain Commanders Badge in Garrard case.
drclaw Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Congratulations on your purchase, Markus! The workmanship is just exquisite and they look as though they just walked out of the jeweller on Saturday. These orders aren't common at all so a very nice pick-up. Thanks for sharing.
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 These are very nice, I love the Order of the Two Rivers!! Great Finds!! I have 24 pieces in my collection and I am always looking for them. The Breast Badge is very beautiful!! Thank you for posting!! Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Can I ask where you found them, and what you paid for them?? Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 The Grand Breast star of El Rafidain. This is such a very beautiful piece, lots of bright gold on the star. Do you have the full set or just this First Class Breast Badge? Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Here are a few of my Kingdom Order of the Two Rivers from my Collection; most of them I bought from Liverpoolmedals.com. Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 This one here I bought in Baghdad, Iraq a few years ago. It is a well worn Iraqi Kingdom Civil 3rd (Silver Gilt) Class Order of the Two Rivers. I was told that this one was mounted on an 8 piece medal bar that was divided to sell separately. Lorenzo
Markus Posted April 13, 2011 Author Posted April 13, 2011 Hi Lorenzo, I have always admired your collection of Two Rivers medals (and all the great Iraqi military you've collected). You have by far the most impressive collection I have seen on this order. This order has been hard to find. After searching for the Two Rivers order for quite a while I saw these three pop up on a German Dealers website and I jumped on them. The prices ranged from $600 to $700 each, so I was very happy to get old auction pricing. The current prices seen on Emedals and Naja coins blow me away! You sure are lucky to have nabbed this order before pricing went crazy! I just have the breast star and not the sash or complete set. Thanks for posting your Two Rivers...always a pleasure to look at. Markus
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Hi Lorenzo, I have always admired your collection of Two Rivers medals (and all the great Iraqi military you've collected). You have by far the most impressive collection I have seen on this order. This order has been hard to find. After searching for the Two Rivers order for quite a while I saw these three pop up on a German Dealers website and I jumped on them. The prices ranged from $600 to $700 each, so I was very happy to get old auction pricing. The current prices seen on Emedals and Naja coins blow me away! You sure are lucky to have nabbed this order before pricing went crazy! I just have the breast star and not the sash or complete set. Thanks for posting your Two Rivers...always a pleasure to look at. Markus Makus Thank you for your wonderful reply, I want to say you have done well the Iraqi Kingdom Orders of the Two Rivers First Class Breast badges in that shape cost a little over 2 grand here in Iraq. Keep me in mind if you ever want to part with them. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Makus Is it possible if you can send me the link to the German dealers website, I would like to check it out. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I am still trying to figure out what the heck this piece is, I was told by 2 Dealers in Iraq that it was a specimen design of the Order of the Two Rivers from 1934-35. You can see that they tried to add the 7 pointed star to the piece for the states of the Hashemite tribe. There are two streams of blue on the piece which represents the two rivers the Tigris and Euphrates. The crown is that of the Iraqi Kingdom, you can see the crescent moons side by side on the Crown. I hope one day I find out what this piece is until then this to me will be what I was told it was. Thank you for viewing Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I am still trying to figure out what the heck this piece is, I was told by 2 Dealers in Iraq that it was a specimen design of the Order of the Two Rivers from 1934-35. You can see that they tried to add the 7 pointed star to the piece for the states of the Hashemite tribe. There are two streams of blue on the piece which represents the two rivers the Tigris and Euphrates. The crown is that of the Iraqi Kingdom, you can see the crescent moons side by side on the Crown. I hope one day I find out what this piece is until then this to me will be what I was told it was. Thank you for viewing Lorenzo The four 7 arrayed stars are removable, could have been to demonstrate the different styles the manufacturer could add to the design. The stars are not permanent they just drop into a key like hole in the center of the piece. What I am trying to say is that nothing locks them into place meaning that the manufactured piece would have been permanently attached so it would not fall off. Thank you for viewing Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I have drooled over the Iraq Order of El Rafidain for quite awhile, admiring the great design of this order. Searching for some reasonable priced medals of this order for over one year, my patience finally paid with these fine examples! I know what you mean about drooling over this Order; in 2005 my First Class Military Kingdom Order of the Two Rivers was on Liverpoolmedals.com. I would go to the link and drool all over it and look at the price asked for it was around 645GPB. I would sit and stare at it all day saying I have to have it. I had to contact Liverpool Medals and submit my Order when I read the print on their site it said items ordered may not be in stock! I was hoping that when I placed my order with them the Piece was still there. Sure enough the piece was there and I was so happy that I even went ahead and bought the Second Class Military Kingdom Neck Order from them. Thank you Lorenzo
Markus Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 Hey Lorenzo, Your prototype piece is incredible. The reason you can't find out anymore about it .... it's probably one of a kind. The Two Rivers order is one of my favorites as well. It's great that you have been able to combine your hobby and tours of duty in Iraq. Most interesting history of Iraq! I hope everything comes together for Iraq and it doesn't devolve into chaos down the road. The whole Middle East seems to be changing all at once with the "Arab Spring" movements and I sure hope things fall on the side of democracy! Be safe over there and God Bless! Markus
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hey Lorenzo, Your prototype piece is incredible. The reason you can't find out anymore about it .... it's probably one of a kind. The Two Rivers order is one of my favorites as well. It's great that you have been able to combine your hobby and tours of duty in Iraq. Most interesting history of Iraq! I hope everything comes together for Iraq and it doesn't devolve into chaos down the road. The whole Middle East seems to be changing all at once with the "Arab Spring" movements and I sure hope things fall on the side of democracy! Be safe over there and God Bless! Markus Markus Thank you very much, I hope Iraq and the Mid East changes for the best, now back on topic. I thank you for sending me the link to that German Militaria Site it is funny becuse the prices you bought the Two Rivers at, you would think the other Iraqi medals listed would be under priced. They are much higher then normal value, I will be keeping my eyes out for the Two Rivers Orders. I even contacted the sales manager and gave him my buying price I hope they can find me a few more pieces. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Iraq Bazaar Pricing Here are some images that were taken at a local Bazaar here in Iraq. These are some Order of the Two Rivers that are being offered at high prices. Iraq is the start point for the items to move more to the West. It just seems that the Iraqi dealers are pricing everything higher than normal! This is a group of the Order of the Two Rivers each one is priced over $1,000.00 I have only seen 1 sell for that price and another I believe sold for $800.00 they all look like the 5th class you can see some bronze on them. Here is a First Class Republic Military Order at the same Bazaar, the price asked for this beauty is almost $6,000.00 Thank you for viewing Lorenzo
Markus Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 Lorenzo, In your collecting efforts, do you find the Republic or the Monarchy El Rafidain more scarce? I have heard that the Republican issue El Rafidain is more in demand in Iraq, since people want a piece of history associated with Saddam's rule. Are all the Republican El Rafidain's made by Bertrand? Markus
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 This is a group of 5 Republic Military Order of the Two Rivers Second Class Neck Orders. These Orders are in mint condition and still in their original cases. They were offered to me a few years ago for S4000 that is around $800.00 a piece. The Second Class Republic Orders are selling in Iraq now for $1500-2000 each. Lorenzo
Markus Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) Wow timing is everything! I Don't know if you saw my earlier post asking about wether Republican or Monarchy El Rafidains are more scarce? Demand sure has driven up the price on these orders! On another note, Do you ever see any old monarchy Persia Lion & Sun Breast stars at your Iraqi dealers that are reasonably priced? Markus This is a group of 5 Republic Military Order of the Two Rivers Second Class Neck Orders. These Orders are in mint condition and still in their original cases. They were offered to me a few years ago for S4000 that is around $800.00 a piece. The Second Class Republic Orders are selling in Iraq now for $1500-2000 each. Lorenzo Edited April 14, 2011 by Markus
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Lorenzo, In your collecting efforts, do you find the Republic or the Monarchy El Rafidain more scarce? I have heard that the Republican issue El Rafidain is more in demand in Iraq, since people want a piece of history associated with Saddam's rule. Are all the Republican El Rafidain's made by Bertrand? Markus This is a good question; the answer is the Republic Order is more wanted because they were awarded by Saddam Hussein he is like the Adolf Hitler of WWII if you catch my drift. Now my Collecting Efforts are that I would want one of each here is the full list that I know of that were manufactured both Kingdom and Republic. Kingdom of Iraq (Military) Order of the Two Rivers Military First Class sash and Breast badge Order of the Two Rivers Military Second Class Neck Order Order of the Two Rivers Military Third Class Gilt Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Military Forth Class Silver Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Military Fifth Class Bronze Breast Medal (Civil) Order of the Two Rivers Civil First Class sash and Breast badge Order of the Two Rivers Civil Second Class Neck Order Order of the Two Rivers Civil Third Class Gilt Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Civil Forth Class Silver Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Civil Fifth Class Bronze Breast Medal (And a Possible Woman’s Civil Order with a much small Sash) Republic of Iraq (Military) Order of the Two Rivers Military First Class sash and Breast badge Order of the Two Rivers Military Second Class Neck Order Order of the Two Rivers Military Third Class Gilt Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Military Forth Class Silver Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Military Fifth Class Bronze Breast Medal (Civil) Order of the Two Rivers Civil First Class sash and Breast badge Order of the Two Rivers Civil Second Class Neck Order Order of the Two Rivers Civil Third Class Gilt Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Civil Forth Class Silver Breast Medal Order of the Two Rivers Civil Fifth Class Bronze Breast Medal I was told that there were Commanders sets during the Kingdom era that a breast Order would be worn on the medal bar and the Breast Badge was awarded with it as a set?? Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Wow timing is everything! I Don't know if you saw my earlier post asking about wether Republican or Monarchy El Rafidains are more scarce? Demand sure has driven up the price on these orders! On another note, Do you ever see any old monarchy Persia Lion & Sun Breast stars at your Iraqi dealers that are reasonably priced? Markus Markus I answerd your question in the last post on the most scarce and my collecting efforts, I have not seen any Persia Orders that high that you are seeking. You can see more of the Comman medals around here I have been seeing alot of U.S. Medals in the Bazaars as well. I bet soldiers are trading them in for other militaria items as a trade what do you think? Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Markus Not all Republican Orders were made by Bertrand after the 1990’s Saddam Had the Ministry of Orders in Medals find groups of manufactures in Iraq to make them. This was done to save on cost plus Bertrand was an outside firm that was making them by the truck loads during the 1970’s and 1980’s so you can image the money that was being spent. Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Iraqi Manufactured Order of the Two Rivers Here is an example of one of the Orders of the Two Rivers that was manufactured and controlled by the Ministry of Orders and Medals. In my notes somewhere I have the name of the Company who manufactured them. I will find it and post the name that was hired to manufacture this type of Order. Thank you Lorenzo
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