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922F

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  1. My pleasure; the OMSA site contains much similarly useful information.
  2. Star is second type (1932-1947); knight with swords Crowns are second type (1932-1947); middle one likely knight with swords & right side officer or above with swords--grade would be indicated by ribbon device. http://www.omsa.org/files/jomsa_arch/Splits/1999/151153_JOMSA_Vol50_1_19.pdf provides a good overview for the Star Order http://www.omsa.org/files/jomsa_arch/Splits/2008/43278_JOMSA_Vol59_1_04.pdf provides a good overview of the Crown Order
  3. Bryansk1959, Did you not notice the sarcastic smirk icon??? The case does not seem similar to any known cases and the recess/nest for the star is very clumsy. Someone either found some old or forged consular stamps and added them for 'legitimacy'. In practice, what would a consular officer have to do with a military related award?
  4. Consular seals always guarantee authenticity, Bob! And they are never forged! The case itself seems in truly excellent condition considering is supposed age. And such a modest price!! 😏 Some documentation indicates that a German Consulate existed in Tiflis/Tbilisi at the appropriate time [see https://researchleap.com/role-support-germany-along-difficult-way-gaining-georgias-independence-1918/]. Rather unclear, however, what role it would play in this circumstance.
  5. This appears to be a nice old mini relating to either the Roman Catholic Austrian or Bohemian langue of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta. Is there a hallmark? Within the past 50 years or so, OSJ badges with somewhat similar double headed eagles bearing an oval St. John shield in the cross angles represent membership in organizations, such as the Sovereign Order of St. John of Jerusalem, Knights Hospitaller, which claim 'descent in the Russian tradition' from the Sovereign Order of St. John of Jerusalem following that Order's loss of Malta in 1798. Enormous amounts of time and effort have been and still are spent on efforts to sort out the 'legitimacy' of such organizations. Insignia of a supposed Order of St. John Albanian langue dating to the 1939-1942 period also have double-headed eagles without crowns between cross arms but those eagles appear almost round in format.
  6. This star [and depending on its accompanying neck or sash badge & ribbon] symbolizes membership in the degree of either Grand Cross or Grand Officer of the Order of the Crown of Thorns, an ephemeral award. This star may be a pre-WW II date example. These were made in France, Italy, Austria, 19 For info on the 'anti' side see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilatte_orders Info on the "pro" side at: http://www.thecrownofthorns.org/ https://san-luigi.org/the-san-luigi-orders/history-of-the-order-of-the-crown-of-thorns/ Image of badge & sash follows below:
  7. Here's THE ORDERS AND MEDALS SOCIETY OF AMERICA's 60th ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION schedule. This event will take place from Thursday, August 15th through Sunday, August 18th, 2019. Venue: The Woodlands Waterway Marriott Hotel & Convention Center, 1601 Lake Robbins Drive, The Woodlands, {HOUSTON} TX 77380. Complete information [including registration and hotel reservation guidance] may be found on OMSA's website at the convention tab , https://www.omsa.org/upcoming-omsa-convention/. The program follows:
  8. Thank you again for posting these important new documents! I may have a Cuban Red Cross document [award given to a Belgian subject in the 1940's] somewhere and will post an image when/if I find it.
  9. Comparing image details of the eMedals collar with the 1978 Klenau European Orders since 1700 Catalog collar reveals they are close 'companions' if not the same. Relative element size, flame 'veining' and many other specifics support this finding. I remember that the green enamel color of the connection links differs from original specimens too.
  10. Here are several 1982-'87 Klenau origin images of C & M insignia. These do not include all C & M pieces offered by Klenau during those years but include most variants. Another sale in those years included a first type [fish scale] star, possibly with a badge & sash. We see 3 different 'emission' badges but only one small collar type. Enlarging these images lies beyond my ability; they seem to be of print dot matrix rotogravure type. The large collar in the last image is different from usual design as well. I observed this collar in person. Note that flame details are cruder, the elements are larger and [though you cannot see in this image] no details are engraved on the element reverses.. Another question--when did the star body design change from fish-scale to dot? Ribbentrop's star is a fish-scale but mid-1930 photos show dot type in use. 1st image—Collar & Badge [+ 3 GC sets] back cover 20 Nov ’87 Lot 1488 {Small collar with cross of this order. Badge silver-gilt enamel 67 X 60 mm on the Collar. This has overall length of 53 cm Start 4800 DM} 2nd image--Collar & Badge + GC set back cover 19 Nov ’82 Lot 62 {Small collar with cross of this order. Badge silver-gilt enamel 90 X 85 mm on the Collar. This has overall length of 53 cm Start 7000 DM} Lot 63 {Complete set of this order. Badge silver-gilt enamel 80 X 75 mm on the sash. With Star of this order silver-gilt enamel 78 X 78 mm with pin. Reverse with Order jeweler mark. A fine old set of 1920. Start 5000 DM} 3rd image—Page 28, Klenau’s European Order Catalog, 1978 cover illustrated above. Large Collar & Badge + GC set
  11. Wonderful documents -- thank you for sharing these rare items. Have you any examples of other Cuban Orders?
  12. Hello All and sincere thanks to Ilieff for this precious information! I had and still may have 1978 Klenau auction catalogs; will try to recoup them and post results here. Seem to recall that the reverse cover of a catalog illustrated in color one of the 'azure' sets. Gustav Tammann had a 1940's C & M small collar with a much later thin arm badge that he said was Cejalvo work. He had a new star with that collar, most likely a 1960's Rothe. I don't recall whether he identified that star's maker or any details of the star at all. He sold these after buying Count Ciano's collar, badge & star which then sold at the UBS auction.
  13. Thank you Walter, for your effort. We got in touch a few days ago. Best regards
  14. Quite true Graf! Thank you for beginning this topic, even though we have strayed a bit for the initial focus as usual in scholastic endeavors. Always useful to educate oneself! And as to 3rd Reich, the Slovak State, and NDH Croatia [at a minimum] remember that several original manufacturers had their 'approved' dies, punches [including German LDO & Slovak "K"], ribbon, and the rest 'in stock' and on hand for decades. One of the best known examples of original makers exploiting the opportunity, Souval of Wein, openly advertised copies struck from original dies for sale as late as the mid-1970's. Most of their output lacked any type of information that the item had been made after 1945. Except for perhaps die wear it would be impossible to detect copies from such sources. There's also the sometimes all to human propensity to convince oneself that a object or concept is genuine even if all signs and evidence point to the opposite, especially if one invested serious time, effort and or expense in acquiring it.
  15. Replying to New World, yes and no. Ex-Blass and similar ones are mainly 100% repro made in Spain & Thailand in the 1970's and '80's. Gold badges of this sort are solid, not hollow. A few of his [mainly Bavarian like Max Josef] apparently had some original components, likely ex-Hemmerle or Zimmerman, melded with new parts. Overall-Hatswell material mainly used original pieces 'augmented' with modern constructed appurtenances. Among other characteristics, these may be easily distinguished by their much cruder fastening nuts and clumsy bandrole curvatures. O-H star reverses may also have forged or 'relocated' maker/jeweler plates
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