Full Wrap Brooch Styles on US Awards

[Tim B]

Hii guys,

I am getting conflicting information pertaining to the style of full-wrap brooches being used on older US Decorations.

I am aware that some of the earliest medals/decorations would have a split-wrap brooch and then there are full-wrap brooches that have the same rotating knob/ball type catch identified as US MInt production.

I am also aware of the other style full wrap that we see on olde service/campaign medals like the WW1 Victory Medal with a different style rotating catch.

PIC attached shows:

Top: brooch in question

Center: Split-wrap style

Bottom: US Mint style Full-wrap style

My question pertains to the style shown on top. I have been told that you should not see this type brooch on decorations like the DSC, Silver Star, etc., and often indicates a medal that has been re-ribboned, probably from a slot-brooch style medal. However, it is often seen and considered correct, for medals like the Air Medal. So, what's the truth here and is there an actual reference?

Thanks,

Tim

[Tim B]

Using some PIC's that I saved for file references, here's a case in point:

First up, is an early (probably circa post-WW1 - 1930's) Silver Star. It has the split-wrap brooch. Everything is correct IMO.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Then we see a Full-wrap version, attributed to the US Mint by the style of brooch (probably WWII era). Again, accepted as correct.

[Tim B]

And, a slotted-brooch version (later WWII/Korea/?), Again, accepted as correct.

[Tim B]

What about this one?

I thought perhaps it was a case of different manufacturers/contracts, but have been told no. It indicates a re-ribboned medal.

Okay, who, why, when?

How do we explain the Air Medal? I have also seen Legion of Merits and even a DSC that had this type clasp and no one said anything bad about those when discussed. So, are these legit or is there more infomation here?

Thanks!

Tim

[Tim B]

And here's a numbered DSC with the same concern.

[Guest Darrell]

Tim do you have "Call of Duty" ... you can see a whole host of Full Wrap Brooches that go way back.

All those you show are ok IMO. The one you question are really almost the same as you see on WW1 Victory medals or the Mariners Medal.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Darrell

[Tim B]

Hi Darrell,

No, I am meaning to pick up the expanded edition of Call of Duty anytime. It looks very good and I actually had a copy of US Navy & Marine Corps Campaign & Commemorative Medals coming, then was told it was OOS but I should be getting a copy of that as soon as it comes in.

I agree, this style brooch/catch is legit on service and campaign medals of the period, but there appears to be a consensus in certain circles that feel this style is NOT legit for decorations like the Silver Star or DSC. So...again, I would like to hear facts here with a reference called out.

Does Call of Duty show these versions being legit for decorations, or do they spell out re-ribboned items?

Tim

The other book; anyone have it and if so, how good is it?

Edited May 19, 2011 by Tim B

[Guest Darrell]

To tell you the truth Tim, I'd have to go back and re-read it to see what it actually says. I just briefly glanced through several of the pictures.

That style you question was shown on a number of mostly campaign medals if I recollect.

The DSC, Navy Cross, Army DSM, Navy DSM, all show the ball type catch for the pin.

However there is a Wrap Brooch Legion of Merit Legionnaire type (numbered), and a numbered brooch Air Medal that has the style you question.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Darrell

[Dave Danner]

The style of full wrap brooch in question was used in issued Silver Stars. Below are two Silver Stars from my collection:

On the left

N.S. Meyer, Inc., Purchase Order No. 1231, Aug. 16, 1943 Phila. Q.M. Depot

On the right:

Serial No. 104921

Medallic Art Co., Purchase Order 10408-Jan. 20, 1943 Phila. Q.M. Depot

I also noted that the N.S. Meyer example is much thicker than the Medallic Arts piece, but less polished. It looks a bit like the one you showed above.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Dave Danner

[Dave Danner]

This one, by contrast, is re-ribboned. It is an unnumbered DSC, by the style and quality a World War II-era example which probably was originally on a slot brooch, but re-ribboned on a wrap brooch.

[Dave Danner]

I also have a boxed, slot-brooch Silver Star similar to Tim's. It is a Bastian Brothers Aug. 9. 1943 contract.

For additional reference, here are a DFC and Air Medal with the wrap brooch in question:

[Tim B]

Thanks again guys, really appreciate the feedback!

Dave,

Do you have any idea where or why some think these medals might have been re-ribboned with this full wrap brooch? I remember reading something where the Army reconditioned medals during the '80's but don't know if this has anything to do with that.

The Meyer example you show is what I was looking for. Thanks again,

Tim