Turkey Order of Medjidie - Sultan's Tugra

[drclaw]

I've just received a copy of 'Ottoman Medals and Orders' by Erureten and Tarihi - a monumental book of over 380 pages of colour photographs.

Interestingly, the book includes an illustration of each Sultan's unique tugra or signature.

A question I have is: Does the tugra in the centre medallion of the Order of Medjidie reflect the particular Sultan of the time in which the Order was awarded?

I have examined a 2nd Class, 3rd Class, 4th Class and 5th Class Order of Medjidie and to my untrained eye, all of the tugras appear the same. In fact, they appear to be that of Sultan Abdulaziz (reigned 1861 - 1876).

This includes the 5th Class which does not have an Ottoman mint mark on the reverse which might suggest a Crimean era issue under Sultan Abdulmecid (1839 - 1861).

Gavin

2nd Class and 3rd Class below:

[drclaw]

4th and (Crimean era?) 5th Class below:

[paul wood]

4th and (Crimean era?) 5th Class below:

Gavin,

I am glad you have invested in Erureten's book it is excellent, especially from the illustrations point of view. I wish I could read Turkish as I am sure that I would learn a lot more.

The Toughra is always that of Abdul Mejid and some of your illustrations show that very clearly. The thing that you have to remember is that many Medjidjies were awarded to foreign recipients and they were usually manufactured in the country of the recipient. To European manufactures the Toughra was about as comprehensible as writing from outer space so quite often there are serious errors in copying it. Turkish made pieces will always have a clear Toughra of Abdul Mejid, the founder.

As an order to collect, especially in the 3rd-5th class it is relatively inexpensive and the amount of variations one can find make it an interesting collecting theme.

All the best,

Paul

[drclaw]

Thanks Paul, that answers my question.

I spent the past few days peering with increasing frustration through a magnifying glass. It was only after photographing with a macro zoom that I had an epiphany - they were all identical.

You are spot on about the European manufactures. The toughra on the 5th Class Crimean is by far the least comprehensible whereas those with the Ottoman mint mark are clearly defined.

I find the variation in the design of the medal particularly interesting. It's a shame that Erureten and Tarihi's excellent book doesn't provide more detail on distinguishing between different periods of manufacture (it might be in the Turkish text ...).

Gavin

PS. I haven't forgotten my promise to shout you lunch when I'm in London

[paul wood]

Thanks Paul, that answers my question.

I spent the past few days peering with increasing frustration through a magnifying glass. It was only after photographing with a macro zoom that I had an epiphany - they were all identical.

You are spot on about the European manufactures. The toughra on the 5th Class Crimean is by far the least comprehensible whereas those with the Ottoman mint mark are clearly defined.

I find the variation in the design of the medal particularly interesting. It's a shame that Erureten and Tarihi's excellent book doesn't provide more detail on distinguishing between different periods of manufacture (it might be in the Turkish text ...).

Gavin

PS. I haven't forgotten my promise to shout you lunch when I'm in London

I am wondering if any of our Turkish clients would fancy a project of translating the Turkish into English and marketing it as a CD. For one I would be certainly glad of it.

Paul