A request for advice: Met L (Lambeth Div) photo

[Monty]

Hi Ladies and Gents,

Ive a request for advice really and would be grateful for any help.

Im trying to track any Victorian photos of Met Police Div L, Lambeth. Idealy and Jubilee shots of 87 or 97.

If anyone knows of a definate location Id be very grateful.

Also, Im trying to locate a Bobby from 1889 yet only have a collar number, does anyone fancy my chances of obtaining his name and warrant no?

Many thanks for your time,

Monty

:)

[Guest pikemedals]

hi monty can we see the photo and what is his division number ( collar number ) paul

[Monty]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't hold an image, I'm hoping L Div did a commemorative Jubilee photo so I can pin him in an image from 1887/97.

His collar number is 63L. I am looking at a Guy called Morton however I feel this chap was way too previous. I know 63L gave evidence in a case in 1889 but that's all I have.

I'm aware I'm shooting in the dark here but I thought it worth a punt, you never know.

Kind regards

Monty

[Guest pikemedals]

hi monty am sorry that i got it wrong. i find 2 officers who joined befor 1889 with the surname morton 1st is pc charles morton who got a 1887 medal and a 1897 clasp warrant number is 68866.2nd is pc joseph morton who got a 1897 medal warrant 78778. charles medal is named to the x division and joseph medal is named to the g.division.hope that can help you in any way. i will have a look if i got a print out for the morton surname from policeorders web site that will give the division number that you are looking for. if his surname is morton paul

[Monty]

Hi Paul.

Firstly a Happy New Year to you and all the members here.

To be honest I am not certain of the name Morton. Its the collar number I'm working on as that is the key to the area of research I'm working on.

However, the lines you provide are certainly worth chasing and I'm very grateful to you for taking the time to help me.

Regards

Monty

[Odin Mk 3]

I have identified a number of possible officers with that number. I will produce you a table of everyone I can find who held that number between about 1889 and 1912 but it will take me some time to compile and I'm rather busy with something else at present. Will flesh out what I have found and post the information tomorrow.

[Monty]

Odin,

That would be excellent, many thanks indeed.

Please, do not let it hinder your own work, I can wait.

Kind regards

Monty

:)

[Odin Mk 3]

Here is what I have found:

11/05/1889 Warrant No. 67055 PC Henry Rouse Div No 63L left with a gratuity (joined Met - L Div 1882)

08/08/1889 Warrant No. 73724 PC William Davidson Div No 63L was dismissed (joined Met 1888)

21/10/1890 Warrant No. 74744 PC James Kittering Div No 63L left L Div for R Div (joined Met 1889)

15/12/1890 Warrant No 76430 PC Elijah Thurman Div No 63L joined Met

09/04/1904 Warrant No 76430 PC Elijah Thurman Div No 63L left L Div for H Div

11/04/1904 Warrant No 90636 PC Benjamin Milligan Div No 63L joined Met

17/02/1912 Warrant No 90936 PC Benjamin Milligan Div No 63L left L Div on promotion to PS R Div

09/11/1912 Warrant No 748847 PC Albert Hitchman Div No 63L Died (joined Met 1889)

It can't be either Davidson or Kittering as neither would have had the 1887 Jubilee Medal whilst serving as 63L. Likewise Milligan joined too late to have either the 1887 or 1897 Jubilee Medal. Hitchman would have had the 1897 Medal but by the time he was 63L he would have had the 1902 and 1911 Medals.

That leaves Thurman or Rouse. Thurman would have earned the 1897 Medal as 63L but he also added the 1902 medal whilst in that Division - so unless it was taken before 1902 I would discount him and think Rouse is a more likely candidate - possibly a photo taken of him just after he received the 1887 Medal and left the Met in 1889.

The age of the man might also help - I can tell you that Thurman was 20 (a framework maker) when he joined in 1890 so he should look around 30 if it is him in the photo. Unfortunately I don't have any details for Rouse.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Odin Mk 3

[Monty]

Hi Odin,

Excellent stuff, and most helpful thank you.

Now Ive done a little research on Rouse. He appears in the Old Bailey on line in 3 counterfitting cases. 84. 84 and 97. Still with the same collar number of 63L. Now this confuses me if he left in 89. Is there an explaination for this?

Also, Ive managed to get intouch with Rouses decendant. If you are interested, and if they are willing, I can pass his service details to you.

Again, many thanks for your work.

Cheers

Monty

:)

[Odin Mk 3]

The explanation is that if you look very carefully at the 1897 case, you will find it was a PS Henry Rouse in R Div (Greenwich). This is a different Henry Rouse, Warrant Number 65714, who was a Station PS with the number 64R, as per that case. This man retired in 1907 as an Inspector in Y Div (Highgate). So not the same man I'm afraid. Excellent source of information those Old Bailey cases as they can give you an insight into some of the cases officers were involved with.

HENRY ROUSE (Sergeant R 64). I was at the station as acting inspector—I received this coin from the last witness, I marked it—this is it—I charged the prisoner with this—he said, "It is a false accusation—a week afterwards he was charged with the other case—he made no reply to that.

If you can get more information on PC Henry Rouse I would be very interested and especially to see a copy of the photo if that is possible.

[Monty]

Hi Odin,

D'oh as Homer would say. Apologies.

Sure, I will forward what I have.

Many thanks

Monty

:)

[Tom King]

I may have a photo in my collection but I need to dig around and find it. WIll let you know as I can't remember if it is L or E Div.

[Monty]

Very grateful Tom,

As I am to all who've helped.

Regards

Monty

:)

[Tom King]

Monty

Sorry it was E Div Bow Street Police station. I do have a picture of a small group of L Div but it was a lot later post Victorian era. :blush: