Some Navy Uniform Question

[Markgraf]

I think it is a Merchant Marine tunic, but I'm little bit unsure with the details.

Button(s), 8 in two row.

Rank insignia

The middle band is purple, so I think the owner was Chief Engineer (Lt.).

The ribbons

Korea Medal, 1939-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal.

I would be happy for any confirmation or extra information!

M

[Odulf]

Button = Merchant Navy

Braid = Engineer Lieutenant RN

Ribbons = Korea Medal, 1939-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal

Odd that the ribbon for the War Medal 1939-45 is not included.

The braid with curl is typical for RN, MN braid usually have a square (see enclosure) but perhaps some MN used the RN type of braid.

[Markgraf]

Thank You Odulf!

Maybe the owner was a RN officer who later became Merchant Mariner? Or just an irregular braid?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Markgraf

[Tresawne]

The braid in question is probably that of Third Engineer Officer BP Tankers [Merchant Navy]. I have sample of Second Engineers Braid. The width of the BP braid was narrow, being 3/8". Regular MN is 7/16"and RN 1/2". Most MN officers prefer the 1/2". I have also seen RN braids of 9/16". The executive loop was used by BP and a few other commercial MN companies.

The braid is too narrow for RN and purple designation for engineering branch was discontinued after the war. [as were other colours]. Branch designation colours are still used in the MN. The placing of the coloured cloth is RN style - being between the gold stripe rather than individually placed under each stripe. This is rather neater and more practical as the individual cloth tends [i know this from experience] to fray and become rather untidy.

The MN buttons are correct for the uniform.

Trust this is useful.

Tresawne

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou Tresawne. Very useful info.. Welcome to the Forum - I hope we will see more posts from you. Mervyn

[Markgraf]

Thank You Tresawne! It was useful :)

[Tresawne]

A few braids to ponder: LtoR 2nd Eng Offr [bP Tankers],2nd EO [Royal Fleet Auxiliary],2EO Merchant Navy [standard, with designation cloth (MN Purple) under braid], Chief Eng Offr MN [standard, cloth (MN Purple) under braid],Chief Eng Offr MN [with RN Purple between braids].

Tresawne

[Mervyn Mitton]

Tresawne - a good reference picture - I think it will get some good use from members. Mervyn

[Tresawne]

Some more braids. The lower picture is of a Frock Coat recently for sale on ebay. The description states that this is an early 20th century RNR Frock Coat. The coat has RNR buttons with King's Crown. The braids however, are most certainly not RNR and appear to be the centre two stripes from a Master/Chief Engineer Merchant Navy (or a Second Officer of means!). There is a sword belt with RNR buckle. MN officers of course did not wear swords. I believe there is a story that P &O asked permission of the Admirality for their officers to be allowed to wear swords. The response was that they could if the sword were worn in the middle and was made of wood. This of course may well be apocryphal. There also appeared a mess jacket with similar braid, having an addittional stripe below the two interlinked braids. Here there may be a clue to origin. The mess jacket braid has what appears to be a silver motif of a maple leaf set in the diamond. Canadian link - but no reference!? The upper picture is of an actual RNR Frock Coat circa 1890 ;the buttons were no longer used after 1891.The style of the braids shown on the RNR Frock Coat were used until 1952 when they were replaced with standard RN braid with an R in the loop. Not quite sure what the medal is on the RNR 1890 Frock Coat. A puzzle indeed. Any ideas?

Tresawne

[Odulf]

Medal looks like the Queen's Jubilee or Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal.

Interesting to note the whiskers, as these were banned in the RN from 1869 and moustaches also, thus the order was "clean shaven or a full set of beards".

Edited August 21, 2012 by Odulf

[Markgraf]

I think it is a Merchant Marine tunic, but I'm little bit unsure with the details.

Button(s), 8 in two row.

01.jpg

Rank insignia

The middle band is purple, so I think the owner was Chief Engineer (Lt.).

01 007.jpg

The ribbons

Korea Medal, 1939-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal.

01 004.jpg

I would be happy for any confirmation or extra information!

M

What do you think Gentlemen?

This RFA officer's peaked cap is fit for the above uniform or not?