Austria-Hungary Help with Freiherr Diploma

[Rattrapante]

I picked this up at a local estate sale here in Minneapolis today and I am wondering if anyone has more information about it. It appears to me to be a (ennoblement) diploma that elevates Heinrich Carl von Haymerle from Ritter to Freiherr (or Knight to Baron in English terms). Any help would be much appreciated.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Rattrapante

[Trooper_D]

Rattrapante

Congratulations! What a wonderful find - I admit to feeling extremely envious

It appears to me to be a (ennoblement) diploma that elevates Heinrich Carl von Haymerle from Ritter to Freiherr (or Knight to Baron in English terms). Any help would be much appreciated.

From what I can see, you appear to have summed it up pretty well. You have probably Googled him already but in case you haven't, Wikipedia reveals that he was the Austrian Foreign Minister from 1879 to 1881 and has a portrait of him,

http://en.wikipedia....rl_von_Haymerle

Perhaps you might outline what other information you were hoping for, so that we can get on the case?

[Rattrapante]

Hi James,

I did look him up on wikipedia. The German version of the page has more information about him than the English one, but I do not speak German so I am relying on google translate. There is also a German wikipedia page for Josef Lasser von Zollheim, the second signature on the last page below the signature of Franz Joseph I.

I think the two things that I would like to know is (1) how you know whether this is the real thing or just an elaborate copy/hoax and (2) how rare or unusual these diplomas are. I located a person last night who may be a decendent of Heinrich Carl von Haymerle and I've emailed him to see whether he is. He may be able to shed more light on how this diploma ended up in the middle of the northern United States.

Hans

[Trooper_D]

Hans

Let me first state that I am not an expert and, furthermore, you will be better able to judge the quality of what you have in your hands than I can merely looking at photos. That all having been said, it looks 'right' from other examples that I have seen on the Internet. On the assumption that you have satisfied yourself that the pages are not photocopied or laser printed, depending on what you paid for it, it seems to me that the cost and trouble in producing a fake 'from scratch' (which would include gaining access to Imperial seals) would outweigh the expected financial reward. That to me is the sanity test that suggests it to be genuine. I would be interested in hearing what others think, though.

As to its rarity, there were as many produced as men ennobled. This was not an unusual occurrence in 19th century Austria. However, the man who received this example was not a 'nobody', so I would imagine that that would push up its value. Of course a search of the European auction house sites for comparable examples will reveal more - they usually have an English language option to help us monoglots, in my experience.

I suspect that you have come up with many of these thoughts yourself but I hope that I have helped somewhat. I hope you will let is know if the putative relative/descendant comes back to you with anything interesting.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Trooper_D

[Rattrapante]

His name in the diploma is spelled "Carl" when every internet source I can find says that it was "Karl" - why his name would be misspelled in such an important (and apparently executed) document would be another question if someone else has more information.

[Guest Rick Research]

Carl was the universal spelling before orthographic changes in the 1890s. Men born Carl alive after that could have spelled their names either way thereafter.

I cannot imagine how anyone could forge such documents.... sorry if you've been twitchy all this time. It's a glorious document.