Scottish Police City of Glasgow Police

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

It’s been a couple of months ago since I received this photo along with a pair of medals named to Sergeant T. Urquhart and this is the first time our lives have slowed down enough to start posting on the forum once again.

The question I have for my fellow collectors is what police service Sergeant Urquhart served with. When I purchased this group I was hoping that the photo was clearer than shown, however, that was not to be the case. The photos I have posted are as clear as the photo itself, sadly to say.

I am hoping that someone will recognize the hat badge from the shape and the general shading shown in the photo. Also there is a rather interesting shoulder flash that might give some clues. I don’t have a time period for the photo though the medals are the WWII Defence Medal and the Police Long Service Medal, so this may place the photo in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Once I discover the correct police service I will post the whole group.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give me, as always it is greatly appreciated.

Regards
Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Here are a couple of closer views of the hat badge and shoulder flash.

I'm sorry they are not clearer but this is as good as the original.

Why is it that anything police related is never easy?

Regards

Brian

[Robin Lumsden]

Brian.

Definitely Scottish Police.

Cap badge is pre-1978. Most of these 'non-cut-out-badges' date from the 1960s, but some were worn well into the 1970s.

No sign of medal ribbons on the tunic ................. are you sure they go together with the man in the photo?

Shoulder badge is inconclusive ..................... could be one of several Forces.. Lothian & Borders, Central Scotland and Tayside are possibilities.

[Robin Lumsden]

The cap badge ..................

[Robin Lumsden]

PS - for my money, this particular photo dates to about 1975. ;)

Edited October 27, 2012 by Robin Lumsden

[Robin Lumsden]

The later 'cut-out' version ......................

[Robin Lumsden]

.................... and the type I used to wear.

[Robin Lumsden]

Happy days!

Well, maybe not. :cheeky:

[speagle]

EXCELLENT information!

That's why I so enjoy this site.

Thanks

Ed

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Robin,

Thank you for the information. As I mentioned I had hoped that the photo was going to be clearer than it is. Internet photos and especially those on sites like eBay are not of the best quality at times.

I cannot be sure that the photo and the medals belong together. As you say there is no sign of a ribbon bar on the tunic in the photo and even if the photo was taken befor he received the Police Long Service Medal I would think he would have worn the Defence Medal ribbon. The dealer who sold me this (Buy It Now) has many other medal groups on eBay and his prices are far from being a bargan but the quality is always there. I've purchased from him before with no problems but never anything with a photo included. Other than a photo with a name tag or a purchase directly from the original recipient or even from the family one van never be sure that somewhere along the line someone has not enhanced the package by adding a photo, in this case of a police sergeant, to bump the collectability and therefore the value. I personally don't think that the dealer has done this but there is no proof that, even if I am correct, someone else added a bogus photo and then sold the group to him.

The seller states his location as "In beautiful Mount Rainier Country ~/~, United States" I'm sure eBay buyers have seen his many offerings.

When colleting police or any historic items one must always consider the evidence. If there is a reasonable doubt then one cannot make a statement of fact, as that is just not admissible in the antiquarian court. Also since I have the audacity to state that my blog is "News From the Home Office" the record must be accurate.

To this end this whole post will be placed in the file for future collectors who will end up with it after I have gone to that big medal show on the "other side".

In order to make sure the image of the medal pair is not accidently presented on the GMIC as a verified grouping I'll post the image here.

Thanks again,

Brian

[Guest pikemedals]

on the 1911 census only one thomas urquhart come up.aged 27 from barnsley.can this be the same man ?

[conner395]

My tuppence worth.

The shirt collar looks like it is separate (from the shirt) and thus would be blue, and this makes it definitely pre-1975.

Borne out by the tie which looks it is a "real" tie - clip-on did not come around till mid-1970s.

The "bottle-top" Semper Vigilo cap badge finally went out at regionalisation in 1975 (Ayrshire and Aberdeen City still wore their own badges til lthen).

The only force in Scotland which pre-1975 wore the trapezium-style of epaulette insignia as per photo was the City of Glasgow Police, so I would suggest that's where yer man was.

Worth going to the Glasgow Police Museum sitte at http://www.policemuseum.org.uk/ then clicking on "links", and read the section entitled "RESEARCHING YOUR FAMILY HISTORY?"

Dave

(Inverness)

Edited November 16, 2012 by conner395

[Brian Wolfe]

Many thanks for the information Dave, it is most useful.

I apologize that I didn’t respond to you sooner, it is a good lesson not only to me but others on the forum that one should never be too busy to thank fellow members who have taken the time to share their knowledge and make this a member-friendly forum.

Thanks again, I really do appreciate you taking the time to assist me.

Regards

Brian