HMS HOOD Cap Tally Authentification

[HMS HOOD]

I wonder if any experts here like Mr. Odulf or others specializing in WWI& WWII RN caps might have some clues regarding an HMS HOOD tally I recently bought?  Unfortunately, I've had no luck so far after contacting the National Museum of the Royal Navy (no response) and a few dealers and auctioneers.

Here is what I was informed;  The tally was described as having been bought from a Royal Navy memorabilia shop in Portsmouth 40 years ago (evidently no longer in existence).  This shop said it was obtained from a family who stated that it came from a relative of theirs who had served on Hood in the late 1920's/early 30's.

Upon seeing it in person for the first time, my impression was that it didn't seem like it had been made at least 82 years prior, i.e., pre-1941.  It is in excellent shape, has no sort of odor or wear.  In addition, there is what appears to be a thumbprint partial gold fingerprint on the ribbon.

Another point which I'm not sure about is that there is no gold dot right after the word "Hood".  All the ones I've seen which were authenticated as being from Hood show this dot, though I guess it's possible that some might not.

I'm not contending that the tally was untruthfully sold to me as being authentic as perhaps the

previous owner was not given the real story.  I just want to know if it is in fact a Hood-issued tally or not.

Attached is an iPhone shot of it.  Thanks in advance for any clues which might lead to discovering its origin.

[Farkas]

Hello and welcome to GMIC 🍻

 

I’ve asked about a couple of tallies myself on here, the devil’s in the detail, particularly of the reverse.

The reverse may not immediately confirm it is a period item but it can rule it out.

Also the length of it, or maybe scale I should say 🤔, is important to help find your answer.

 

You realistically accept it could go either way and I doubt many original hood tallies survive but most things have a story even if it is not that hoped for 🤷‍♂️
 

If you can post some more pictures then hopefully we’ll be able to help.

tony 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇬🇧

 

👇  mine…

 

[HMS HOOD]

Dear Farkas,

 

Thanks for your post and here are some shots of the back with another of the front...

 

[HMS HOOD]

 

Sorry for the poor focus and lighting on some of them.  I must also add that they do look a bit darker than these shots and what seems like shine in the ribbon is actually just light reflection.  From the back, the lettering does seems to be stitched rather than just printed, also "HMS" & H in the bottom right photo is not bright gold like this pic.

 

The total length of the tally is about 96cm and each end is cut diagonally, ribbon width is 29mm, total length of the the lettering is 101mm from "H"to "D".

 

Hope this helps and thanks for any clues....Also, if there are any authenticators or other sources out there who might have some answers, please let me know...

 

Cheers!

[Farkas]

In my opinion what you have looks correct, If you go by its look it is not a modern replica and it has no errors that I can see. Still whether it’s an honest original thing I don’t know enough to say.

 

I say it looks correct because modern reproductions have a reverse like this 

old ones have this appearance 

which yours does.

I found this example 

It matches yours.

 

And that missing dot after ‘HOOD’ is not a problem. In WW1 tallies had the dot, by WW2 they didn’t. At some point between the dot was dropped but I don’t know when 🤷‍♂️

 

The regulation width was 1&1/8 inches which is 28.6 mm and length well over 40inches then cut down. Yours fits with both of these 👍

 

tony 🍻

 

 

[HMS HOOD]

Dear Tony,

 

Thanks so much for your input, it's much appreciated!  I'll keep working on it...

[HMS HOOD]

Just an update....I got in touch with Heritage Auctions, whose site says they are World-Class Experts in 50+ Categories...and specifically because they had previous run 2 Hood Cap auctions Hood with their  tallies intact.  In fact mine does look like these two and both of them don't have dots next to "Hood" so that does seem to clear up that particular issue.

They kindly responded that they weren’t really British military specialists so giving me a definitive answer about originality would be difficult and suggested I contact someone who specializes in British insignia.  

 

So that is who I'm hoping to find.  If Tony is correct about the tally's authenticity (and I think and hope he is), it will be great if this opinion can be seconded so I can know for sure.  Happy to join this site, it is really excellent!

[Farkas]

I love that some gents on here can vouch for medals, tell you who made them and when but it’s voodoo to me & always will be!
 

It’s a tricky thing to be sure enough to put your name to it. With this tally it’s easy for me to give my amateur thoughts, trying to help is a good way to learn but an expert’s opinion on something like this is going to take longer to get. There’s not as many left nowadays I’d guess and still being sure is no simple thing. 
 

Todays advances in the production of convincing forgeries in all fields of life must make it a nightmare. On here, I’ve seen in the past a reluctance to comment on items, Gents pointing out the little errors or tells on the forgery would only help them get it right the next time.

 

Having said all that, I think the question as to whether yours was just an innocent modern reproduction has been answered, so far so good, hopefully you get the confirmation that it is a period piece one day too.
 

On here answers still pop up years later in some cases so keep an eye out.

cheers

tony 🍻