Garde pioneer flamethrower

[USN]

Good morning gentlemen,

 

I was lucky enough to have come across a nice photo postcard of an unteroffizier from the reserve garde pioneer regiments flammenwerferzug and just wanted to share. It looks like it was at one point cut down to fit a picture frame, it unfortunately is missing alot of information but does feature a nice shot of the skull on the left cuff and is addressed directly to the flame thrower unit. As always comments and opinions are welcome!

 

Many Thanks,

Will

 

 

[The Prussian]

Hello Will!

Great document! Those photos are very rare! Congrats!

I have only one photo in my collection.

 

Your card was written by a man called "Schlodder" from the GRPR. He writes to an Unteroffizier of the Sturmbataillon of the Heeresgruppe Erzherzog Johann.

There was one man with the name "Schlodder" of that unit the casualty lists:

Vizefeldwebel Schlodder:

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4570054

 

With the number "1154" you can order the regimental history of GRPR on pdf for 10€ here:

https://military-books.lima-city.de/hp01/garde.html

 

Edited March 27 by The Prussian

[Bernd_W]

Great pictures.

So a Prussian flamethrower writes to a KuK one. Likely they trained together?

Any idea for what these thin sticks? Looks bit to small for walking sticks. 

 

[The Prussian]

Hello!

I did one mistake...

It´s NOT Heeresgruppe Erzherzog Joseph, but Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph!

 

Since Jan.5, 1917 the Eastern Front was divided in Heeresfront des "Oberbefehlshabers Ost" (Commander-in-Chief East) and the Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph.

The Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph consisted of:

K.u.k. 7th army, K.u.k. 1st army and Heeresgruppe Mackensen with german 9th army and bulgarian 3rd army.

So the recipient could be a german soldier!

 

I don´t know anything about the sticks. Maybe they teached some soldiers something and needed the stick to show something? No idea...

[USN]

 

35 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

I did one mistake...

It´s NOT Heeresgruppe Erzherzog Joseph, but Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph!

 

Since Jan.5, 1917 the Eastern Front was divided in Heeresfront des "Oberbefehlshabers Ost" (Commander-in-Chief East) and the Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph.

The Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph consisted of:

K.u.k. 7th army, K.u.k. 1st army and Heeresgruppe Mackensen with german 9th army and bulgarian 3rd army.

So the recipient could be a german soldier!

 

I don´t know anything about the sticks. Maybe they teached some soldiers something and needed the stick to show something? No idea...

That is very interesting, it does seem likely that those 2 individuals trained and possibly even served together. I believe that the recipient of the card was a W. Billerbeck, from what little I could read it seems like schlodder is mentioned serving with or transferring into the 2nd company of the GRPR.

[Klaus P. Schad]

Hello Will and Prussian,

Nice pics I like it. I checked the honor list of the G.R.P.R., there's no VFw. Schlodder. Apparently he was wounded but he made it. 

Storm-Btl.17 was formed on Jan.1st.1917 by Heeresfrontkommando Erzherzog Joseph and comprised out of the following units : 

1. German Storm-Company, 2.Austrian Storm-Company, LMG-Trupp (9 LMG's), MWK, Flammenwerfer-Trupp.

By 1917 the Austrian 2nd St.-Comp. was disbanded and the establishment of a German 2nd St.Comp. was disallowed by the OHL (German HQ) on Nov.12th 1917. (Source : Die Deutschen Sturmbataillone im Weltkrieg, by Hellmuth Gruss).

 

RE your card. Apparently, Schlodder of 2nd Austrian Storm Company corresponded with Uffz. Billerbeck from the Flammenwerferzug.

 

Note : Please remember me if you ever stumble into a Flammenwerfer photo with a death's head on a Luger-holster.

I'll buy you a beer !!!

Klaus

 

[The Prussian]

Hello Klaus!

You mentioned the "Gruss".

In his book he also told us, which Ersatz came to that bataillon (for the german ones):
For staff and stormcompanies: II.Ers.Btl./Gren.Rgt.4

For 1.MG-RTrupp: III./MG-Kursus Döberitz

For Minenwerfer: Pi.Ers.Btl.18

According to the regimental history of GRPR there is mentioned, which company came to other war-theatres.

From Febr.20, 1917 until the end of 1917 the 3rd company had two actions in Russia and 1 in Galicia.

The 4th company 1 action in Galicia and 5 in Russia and the 7th company 4 times in Russia.

In Rumania, Macedonia, South-Tyrol and Italy:

8th company: 3x Rumania, 2x Macedonia

Platoon Hübner: 1x Tyrol, 2x Italy

Platoon Hahn: 1x Tyrol

 

In the regimental history a Schlodder is mentioned as "Offizierstellvertreter" (Deputy Officer)

 

 

Edited March 30 by The Prussian

[USN]

I would have never been able to get any of this information without your expertise gentlemen! 

When I finally have the card in hand I'll do my best to get rid of some of the glue and old paper from the back and maybe get a little more information from what's left of the writing. I do see some mention of the 2nd company in on the left.

[Klaus P. Schad]

Hello Will and Prussian,

Nice pics I like it. I checked the honor list of the G.R.P.R., there's no VFw. Schlodder. Apparently he was wounded but he made it. 

Storm-Btl.17 was formed on Jan.1st.1917 by Heeresfrontkommando Erzherzog Joseph and comprised out of the following units : 

1. German Storm-Company, 2.Austrian Storm-Company, LMG-Trupp (9 LMG's), MWK, Flammenwerfer-Trupp.

By 1917 the Austrian 2nd St.-Comp. was disbanded and the establishment of a German 2nd St.Comp. was disallowed by the OHL (German HQ) on Nov.12th 1917. (Source : Die Deutschen Sturmbataillone im Weltkrieg, by Hellmuth Gruss).

 

RE your card. Apparently, Schlodder of 2nd Austrian Storm Company corresponded with Uffz. Billerbeck from the Flammenwerferzug.

 

Note : Please remember me if you ever stumble into a Flammenwerfer photo with a death's head on a Luger-holster.

I'll buy you a beer !!!

Klaus

 

[Klaus P. Schad]

Hello Will and Prussian,

Nice pics I like it. I checked the honor list of the G.R.P.R., there's no VFw. Schlodder. Apparently he was wounded but he made it. 

Storm-Btl.17 was formed on Jan.1st.1917 by Heeresfrontkommando Erzherzog Joseph and comprised out of the following units : 

1. German Storm-Company, 2.Austrian Storm-Company, LMG-Trupp (9 LMG's), MWK, Flammenwerfer-Trupp.

By 1917 the Austrian 2nd St.-Comp. was disbanded and the establishment of a German 2nd St.Comp. was disallowed by the OHL (German HQ) on Nov.12th 1917. (Source : Die Deutschen Sturmbataillone im Weltkrieg, by Hellmuth Gruss).

 

RE your card. Apparently, Schlodder of 2nd Austrian Storm Company corresponded with Uffz. Billerbeck from the Flammenwerferzug.

 

Note : Please remember me if you ever stumble into a Flammenwerfer photo with a death's head on a Luger-holster.

I'll buy you a beer !!!

Klaus

 

 

Hello Prussian and Will,

I didn't know you can order regimental history books on-line for 10 $. I guess I paid way too much for my books over the years. Thanks for the info anyway.

Will, can you find out where your card originated from, please check the postal stamp. If it was sent from France then most likely it was mailed by Schlodder of 2nd Sturmkompanie G.R.P.R.

Prussian, according to your research, the 2nd Sturmkompanie of the G.R.P.R. was not detached to the 14th Army in Italy, meaning, the card could have been mailed in Italy from Schlodder of the 2nd Austrian Sturmkompanie of St.-Btl.17 to

Uffz. W. Billerbeck at the Flammenwerferzug.

 

You Guys have a Happy Easter and many eggs.

Klaus

[The Prussian]

Hello Klaus!

It´s hard to say something about the stamp. Fact is, it is a German, not an Austrian one.

It´s a so-called "blind stamp" with no info on it but the date.

The troop-stamp shows us the GRP-Regiment, not GRP-Bataillon.

There is no company marked, so the sender was in a company that was not detached to another unit. So the letter was sent by the regimental staff.

The battalion was raised into a regiment in April 1916. The skull head was introduced end of July 1916

So we have August 16, 17 or 18.

I coulnd´t see, the regiment was in the East in 1916

Probably we are in 1917 an we have the above mentioned theatres:

From Febr.20, 1917 until the end of 1917 the 3rd company had two actions in Russia and 1 in Galicia.

The 4th company 1 action in Galicia and 5 in Russia and the 7th company 4 times in Russia.

In Rumania, Macedonia, South-Tyrol and Italy:

8th company: 3x Rumania, 2x Macedonia

Platoon Hübner: 1x Tyrol, 2x Italy

Platoon Hahn: 1x Tyrol

I also wrote above:

Since Jan.5, 1917 the Eastern Front was divided in Heeresfront des "Oberbefehlshabers Ost" (Commander-in-Chief East) and the Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph.

The Heeresfront Erzherzog Joseph consisted of:

K.u.k. 7th army, K.u.k. 1st army and Heeresgruppe Mackensen with german 9th army and bulgarian 3rd army.

 

So I am sure, the card goes to the german 9th army.

17.8.17:

26.7.17-9.12.17: Trench-war at the Sereth and Susita (Rumania)

6.8.17-3.9.17: Break-through-battle at the Putna and Susita (Rumania)

 

So I assume, the card was written in France to the 8th company of that regiment in Rumania.

In August 1918 I have no notification in the East.

In the West the different companies fought at different places in that era.

 

By the way...I found Billerbeck as a Leutnant in the regimental history!

Unfortunately no info, in which company...

That means he promoted to Officer later!

 

I checked the "Militär-Wochenblätter":

Schlodder: No entry. So he was only Offizier-Stellvertreter with the official rank of  Vizefeldwebel

Billerbeck was promoted from Vizefeldwebel to Lt.d.Res. April 27, 1918.

 

 

Edited March 31 by The Prussian

[USN]

I was able to clean up the back of the card a little. It shows shlodder being referred to as a Lieutenant in 1917.

[The Prussian]

Hello!

Good work!

But it´s strange! I couldn´t find anything, Schlodder was Lieutenant...

[USN]

3 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

Good work!

But it´s strange! I couldn´t find anything, Schlodder was Lieutenant...

That is strange, but it wouldn't be the first time a military recorded something incorrectly. It's also hard to tell what the original message was considering much of the original card is lost to time. They could have been discussing the possibility of him becoming a lieutenant or perhaps it was just recorded incorrectly in the books.

[Bernd_W]

IMO Lt. Schlodder is mentioned in the continuous text. He  is not mentioned as sender, which IMO was cut of.

[The Prussian]

Hello Bernd!

Yes, you´re right! He was just mentioned as Lt. So the sender probably was wrong...

Here is the list of the officers, deputy-officers and NCOs, taken by the regimental history.

[Klaus P. Schad]

Hi Prussian and Will, good job piecing together the postcard !

IMO, the card was sent on 8/17/1917 to Uffz. Billerbeck of the Flammenwerferzug regarding the 2nd k.u.k. Sturmkompanie being disbanded 5 days later on 8/22/1917. Maybe you guys are able to decipher the text, that would be great.

Flamethrower platoons were an integrated part of St.-Btls.3, 5 and "17", all others were rotated in and out as needed.

St.-Bt.17 went to 4th Army and was disbanded on 8/22/1918.

Source : Die deutschen Sturmbataillone im Weltkrieg 1914/18, Deutsche Heereskunde 1965 by Major H.R.von Stein.

               Formationsgeschichte der deutschen Infanterie by Hartwig Busche

 

Klaus