Imperial Russia Russian Expeditionary Force uniform questions

[grimble-nibitz]

I recently got this wonderful REF uniform, including off white top hat with French style visor, tunic with 5 buttons and soft and very wide rank boards and blue riding pants with red striping on the legs. It is all made at the same time, and shows some age. Can anyone tell me exactly what rank this is, if the stripes on the cuff are French equivalent rank of some kind and anything about these guys and what guide there is as to the format and rules of their uniforms. Also, would like to put a russian medal of some appropriate kind with it, and I am sure a higher ranking officer like this would have had one...but what? I thank you all in advance!

[Guest Rick Research]

There are no stars on the shoulder boards? No regimental number?

[grimble-nibitz]

Here is a closeup of the boards, no # and seems to show no signs of anything else ever there. 3 small bullion stars.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah! That is a Tsarist Podpolkovnik, or Lieutenant Colonel. Tricky, since they used a slightly different system than the familiar later Soviet version still in use today.

THREE stripes on the left cuff? I'd have thought that was to identify the alien insignia for French forces too, but three would be a Capitaine.

He may have gone up in White Russian rank after the war and not altered the wartime sleeve insignia, or perhaps that has NOTHING to do with French equivalent rank and indicates some sort of regimental frontline "code" concealing actual unit-- hence no numbers.

[Pete A]

Very nice uniform! And no doubt a rare one too.

I found these old scans about Russian WW1 field uniforms lying around in my hard disk, saved ages ago from a Russian forum. In one them those sleeve stripes seem to be explained. I did some cut-and-paste with the parts I think are relevant, and enlarged the text a bit to make it easier to read. (for someone who actually reads Russian.. Rick?)

[attachmentid=40559]

Hope this helps,

Pete

[grimble-nibitz]

That second image is exactly what is on the coat. I wish I could read russian, I will try to get it to a freind that does some online translation. Thanks ever so much for the help, this is quite helpful!

[Guest Rick Research]

PERFECT! Thanks Pete!

No need, Partially Polylingual Ricky is here--

those are WOUND STRIPES, in metallic threads for officers. So he had been wounded three times.

I have seen Tsarist officers' service records and they were VERY big on rewarding wounds with decorations and promotions.

[grimble-nibitz]

Thank you much for the information! Now...is there anything about this, understanding the stripes are 'wound' and not French Rank Eq., that would show this to be from the German/Russina front or the Western 'French' front? I know that there were very few Russian officers sent to the western front in the end. Thanks again in advance!

[Pete A]

Of course they are wound stripes, I should have known that right away! But I always thought that they were those angled ones? So what's the case with that? Horizontal for the officers, angled for other ranks?

Pete

[Guest Rick Research]

No, 11 (straight) are wound stripes

a) red color for enlisted ranks

b) metallic thread for officers

12 are "distinction in actual stay at the front" chevrons

a) yellow color for enlisted men

b) gold for officers

Each "front" chevron = 1 year.

Since those are 1917, probably very few even among officers actually ended up wearing these.

[grimble-nibitz]

I posted these images on the MCF, and I must say that they seem to have some folks there who have most of their knowledge in their mouths...or their keyboard fingers. I got told it was converted from soviet parts...oh well, some of us out there know 'old' and some don't! These stripes are early metallic lace, the end of one is frazzled off a bit. All three match each other. So did the guys on the Western Front wear anything different than the officers at home? The appearance of these stripes makes me think this guy was not in Russia in 1917, or was a real stickler for rules. If he was in France, I see they fought well into 1918 as a unit, and the wearing of these, considering the late date of the insignia, would make more sense, to me at least. But I am biased. I know this is all real, but I just don't know where it was used! There are 2 business cards in the pocket, but someone told me they are in Serbian or Bulgarian, not Russian. Can anyone out there read that?

[grimble-nibitz]

I should also note that the hat buttons were gone, thread only remaining, and I used 2 prong back Frencvh officer buttons from a WWI kepi for replacements, but this may be wrong. Tell me if this is the case please! What was the chinstrap made of, leather or bullion tape or cord?

[Guest Rick Research]

Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian... makes no difference. I can certainly read names and locations. Language is a different matter but that shouldn't be an issue on a name/address sort of thing.

This uniform from what primitive sources I have was worn by the tsarist troops OUTSIDE Russia ONLY.

[Daniel Murphy]

Beautiful!! Only the second real one I have seen.

Dan Murphy

[grimble-nibitz]

I assume it would have had a thin black leather chinstrap on the hat, but who knows? It had chinstrap buttons for sure. Attached is the imagery associated with the cards from the pocket of the coat. One image is of the fronts, and the other is the rear of one, with some kind of notation. Any idea what it says? Thanks in advance! I am certainly pleased with it, for sure. I have never seen or heard of another one.

[Guest Rick Research]

The calling cards are from the city of Pirot, halfway between Ni? and Sofia, in western Bulgaria as lost to the new Yugoslavia after WW1. The first belonged to one Aleksandar Yovanovich, and the second to a Milan R. Zhivkovich, whose occupation I believe was apothecary/druggist.

The jotted greetings I'm uncertain whether they are in Serbian or Bulgarian-- not Russian. They won't add anything to this, I'm afraid, since these are FROM these men to whoever received them. There are no names, only what seem to be quick greetings.

A lot of displaced Tsarists ended up in Yugoslavia-- the only Allied country where their Cyrillic and language similarities allowed an easier transition than into other countries. I worked with a woman whose Tsarist father in law lost fighting with the Whites in the Crimea, came to Yugoslavia, picked the wrong side again as a Royalist Chetnik, and ended up in New York state after WW2. It would appear the original owner of this uniform must have had a similar emigration pattern.

[grimble-nibitz]

Thank you for the useful information! I appreciate the efforts. Interesting possibilities, sad there is no name and so the best (and the dullest as well) of fantasies can live in this outfit!